Is JUDO going to be the new MMA fad now?

[SevenStar]

What's wrong with TJJ, in your opinion Sevenstar. Afetr all, all the BJJ techniques are derived from TJJ?

 

No, it wasn't. It was derived from the ground portion of judo. It also adopted judo's ideal of randori....sparring in order to maximize skill level. The reason kano's judoka mauled the TJJ guys were because they did not randori. There are still TJJ schools today that do not randori. You won't find tjj or bjj schools like that. Also, TJJ employs alot of standing locks - those really aren't feasible in MMA, IME.

[SevenStar]

some of the the best BJJ no-gi teachers that I know of. Chris Brennan, Eddie Bravo, Dean Lister, and of course Mark Laimon his students are wicked good.

 

Any one know of other extremely good BJJ no-gi instructors?

 

-Jeff

 

lloyd irvin.

[SevenStar]

goshinman, where do you train shuai chiao?

I haven't had a chance to study shuai chiao formally yet. I have David CK. Lin's video tape series and that is how I get training for now. I love it though. If I could get into a school in my area I would quit jujitsu to study it.

 

pasadena...I'll find out how far my teacher is from you. Don't quit bjj though - heck, he's an advocate of it. we're under the same lineage as david lin. My teacher was trained by dr. brian wu, who trained under gm chang tung sheng.

[Beer-monster]

 

No, it wasn't. It was derived from the ground portion of judo. It also adopted judo's ideal of randori....sparring in order to maximize skill level. The reason kano's judoka mauled the TJJ guys were because they did not randori.

 

Using that arguement then, would not a TJJ practitioner who took it upon himself to practise more Randori outside his class and develop more skill be able to find success in MMA? In which case it would be a critisism of the preffered training methods and other TJJs, not of the martial art itself.

 

Also the ground component of Judo became a major focus of the art because of a TJJ schools counter to Kano's student's Randori skills. And it isn't too hard for a smart person who trains and spars to modify standing locks for the ground if they undertsand the principles of the technique, eg The Kimura armlock (ude garame).

[jeffrogers]

Loyd Irvin is phenomanal but I thought he was mainly for Gi training. Hmmmm

 

-Jeff

[SevenStar]

you could be right. But a buddy of mine is one of the best no gi guys in the country and trains under him...maybe he's just an exception.

[SevenStar]

Using that arguement then, would not a TJJ practitioner who took it upon himself to practise more Randori outside his class and develop more skill be able to find success in MMA? In which case it would be a critisism of the preffered training methods and other TJJs, not of the martial art itself.

 

I would still criticize the style to an extent, becuase it's not as specialized. bjj guys spend the majority of it's time on the ground. judo guys spend most of their tim throwing. TJJ guys try and do it all, plus standing locks. There's a bigger learning curve there. Because of that, MMA hopefuls will stick to the specialized styles. I can see TJJ being used effectively by someone, but it's highly unlikely that it will become the next mma trend.

 

Also the ground component of Judo became a major focus of the art because of a TJJ schools counter to Kano's student's Randori skills. And it isn't too hard for a smart person who trains and spars to modify standing locks for the ground if they undertsand the principles of the technique, eg The Kimura armlock (ude garame).

 

ground work isn't a major component of judo. throwing is. Kano's guys AFAIK, didn't focus on groundwork. It was incorporated because of his training in tenshin ryu and various other forms of TJJ. The group of judoka who focused on grouund work were the Kosen judoka.

 

as far as modifying for the ground, sure any smart person can figure out how to apply a lock - the body only moves so many ways. The thing is position, which isn't so instinctive and reflex. thosee techniques must be ingrained in you, you won't be modifying them on the spot and expect them to work.

[goshinman]

^^^ I agree with everything you said. I study TJJ and I had to go and grapple with guys from other styles(bjj, ect.) to get my game up to par with those who were doing it for real, and let me tell you I got my butt handed to me alot before I got to a skill level where I could beat people.

 

TJJ does focus on trying to do throws, locks, groundwork, striking, and weapons. BJJ students focus on ground work so they will always have the edge. Only a very special person can master submissions, throwing, and striking and be great at them. Kimura is the ONLY person I can think of who mastered groundwork AND throws equally.

 

As far as standing locks/submissons, they work, but the WOO (window of opprotunity) is too smalll to make them a reliable tactic all the time which is why most mma don't really bother with them. The shootfighters seem to be able to make them work, but standing submissions are rare indeed.

[Kanzashi]

It's been over 30 years since I took Judo, and I'm not saying the GI is not important, however, I always thought that it was for holding onto the person, so you wouldn't fling them across the room after a throw.

 

True, some throws require you to grasp the front of the jacket, but you can do this with a karate gi, it just won't last as long. A heavy weight karate gi will last somewhat longer.

 

As far as grappling goes, it's like wrestling and they don't wear much for it at all.

 

The Gi Jacket seems like an aid for the practitioners, not a requirement for doing Judo. Just my opinion.

[Bdaze]

If they're not wearing a gi, grab a chunk of skin.

 

if they're no wearing skin, poor salt on them and run away.