Drunken Monkey Posted January 28, 2004 Posted January 28, 2004 we were talking about the guy who is said to be a 'five animals' stylist. i assume this to mean, that he has some training in 'five animals' forms. five animals being the set of shaolin origin. hmm, calling my words garbage? sounds kinda personal... people like me? please explain what 'people like me' are like. there's no point in arguing over this because quit simply, you have misunderstood what i have said and have taken my words out of the context of this thread. just for you, i'll add a little to something to my post to clear things up a little. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
jmd161 Posted January 28, 2004 Posted January 28, 2004 we were talking about the guy who is said to be a 'five animals' stylist. i assume this to mean, that he has some training in 'five animals' forms. five animals being the set of shaolin origin. That's the problem with assuming.That's why i stated that there are other styles that have Five Animal forms that are not Shaolin derived.I'm not going to assume that he's talking about Shaolin Five Animals.By looking at the pictures on his site i can tell he's not talking about Shaolin Five animals.hmm, calling my words garbage? sounds kinda personal... people like me? please explain what 'people like me' are like. My exact words were.Where did you get that garbage? Not everything you said was garbage.There is a difference between the two.When i said people like you i was being general.You know the samething you said you were being in your post? By that i mean i give you proof that what you said was wrong.Instead of admitting you were wrong.You go on to say that all you can come up with is one person? I then stated that all i needed to name was one person to prove you wrong right? Am i wrong or right here? I don't have to give you several names to prove you wrong.there's no point in arguing over this because quit simply, you have misunderstood what i have said and have taken my words out of the context of this thread. It was never meant to be an argument.I was stating that you made a mistake and you took it as an attack. If i misunderstood you? Then i'm sorry!! But i don't see where i misunderstood you.I used your exact quotes. jeff The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics.
SevenStar Posted January 29, 2004 Posted January 29, 2004 Also, you said that the techniques he showed pics of for the animals were grappling techniques - It could be possbile that he adapted his 5 animals for the ring. (I haven't looked at his site yet) I don’t see how this could be done. The five animal techniques are distinguished from each other by the formation of the hand. The tiger refers to techniques that resemble a tiger’s claw. The claw hand is a strike that pulls, twists or rakes upon impact. Targets for this are the eyes, throat, groin, skin, muscles and wrists. The snake refers to techniques that use the finger tips to poke and jab soft targets. The crane is similar to the snake but can be used for more angular attacks. The leopard involves a punch that resembles a cat’s paw. In this technique the fore knuckles are used to jab areas such as the ribs. My point being that none of these techniques can really be “converted” into Jujutsu style grappling. The more and more I think about it, the more he just seems like a Jujutsu stylist that has grouped his techniques into five animals. This doesn’t make what he does kung fu in any way, just a big rip off of it. Like I said, at the time, I hadn't looked at his site yet. Now that I've seen it, I agree with you. however, the animals are about more than the fists they use. They each have distinct movements and attitudes.
Sim Posted January 29, 2004 Author Posted January 29, 2004 By looking at the pictures on his site i can tell he's not talking about Shaolin Five animals. I know, he is talking about the five animal style of Jujutsu I don’t know if I’m going too far with this, but the fact that a Brazilian Jujutsu stylist would label himself as a five animal kung fu stylist, A very well known form in Kung Fu, just to lose to Royce Gracie seems a little strange to me. Shaolin Kung Fu was not represented in the first UFCs and sometimes I wonder if they just did this to fill that gap. I don’t know… thats probably a little too far fetched but still. A more likely explanation is that he trained in kung fu, dropped that and turned to jujutsu. But why in the hell would he still be calling it Kung fu in the UFC when he is clearly a Jujutsu stylist
SevenStar Posted January 29, 2004 Posted January 29, 2004 it could be anything... remember gary goodridge? the kuk sool won organization gave him a 4th degree black belt and paid for him to enter the UFC, just so he could represent kuk sool won. He actually only trained in it for about a day. SIM, he's not solely a jj stylist. He didn't begin to train bjj until after he challenged royce and got killed. after that, he began to train bjj, and that was when he entered the ufc. kung fu has been represented in the ufc though, besides him there was david levicki and some others also. Avid competitor yves edwards trained in both kung fu and ninjutsu, but admits that he doesn't use any of it in his fights. Interview w/UFC Rising Star Yves Edwards (part 2) Reported By: Chris Colderley - 06.27.2003 02:00 AM By Chris Colderley The Texas Gunslinger, Yves Edwards, talks with Boxing Insider. In part two of this interview with Chris Colderley, Yves discusses his training, the development of the Texas fight scene, including his own “Third Column” team, and gives a new spin to marketing his image. BoxingInsider.com: I was reading through your bio and I noticed your background in MMA is a little bit different from a lot of people. Could you briefly explain that? Yves Edwards: Are you talking about my Kung-Fu experience? BoxingInsider.com: Yes, you also trained in Ninjitsu, I believe? Yves Edwards: Yes I did. I trained in Kung-Fu because growing up that’s all I used to see. Growing up I watched a lot of Kung-Fu movies. You know the bad ones with dubbing and the guys with the long white beards. I watched a lot of those, and I thought for a long time that was real, so I trained in that until I was exposed to some grappling, which was at a Ninjitsu school. I went in there when I was about 16 years old, and I wrestled around with a 14 year old and I couldn’t dominate him. I couldn’t really do anything to him – I got choked out actually. That turned me on to grappling so I started training with those guys. There weren’t the greatest, but they did have stuff that Steve Jennum and Scott Morris did [in the UFC]. They introduced me to a new way of fighting and as soon as I did it once, I was in love with it. Photo: TXMMA.com BoxingInsider.com: How much of your traditional background do you still use? How much have you kept? Yves Edwards: I use absolutely none of it! I don’t use any Kung-Fu in fights. I should one of these days - bust out a crane stance or horse riding stance or something . . . It was good for that time-frame in my life, but it’s not effective at all for what I am trying to do right now.
Sim Posted January 29, 2004 Author Posted January 29, 2004 it could be anything... remember gary goodridge? the kuk sool won organization gave him a 4th degree black belt and paid for him to enter the UFC, just so he could represent kuk sool won. He actually only trained in it for about a day. Really! I didn’t know that. Man that’s just not right. Doesn’t exactly reflect well on the Kuk Sool Won organization does it.kung fu has been represented in the ufc though, besides him there was david levicki and some others also. Avid competitor yves edwards trained in both kung fu and ninjutsu, but admits that he doesn't use any of it in his fights. I didn't know that either, do you have any more info on Levicki? nevermind, just found him on the net ooh, not a winning record Well I see your point. There are a lot of other fighters that have abandoned their previous art in favor of Muay Thai/Jujutsu. I think the sad fact about a lot of kung fu/karate schools is that they put so much emphasis on forms and neglect the san shou/kumite part of it. That’s why I feel so lucky that I found the school that I did. Not only does he teach all the traditional stuff, but he also has a complete san shou class too. We even have our own San Shou team. One of the guys at our school went as far as to train under Cung Le and Shawn Liu as well.
Drunken Monkey Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 i have to admit that i was a bit annoyed cos your post was also kinda irrelevent to the thread. whether every single traditional arts guy who takes part in a ufc fight loses was not even part of the question and yet you still decided to post your case, in a way that can be read as offensive. i specifically singled out chinese arts because for some reason, people seem more reluctant to fight under that banner compared to the japanese arts people. you seem to have gotten into your head that i'm targetting chinese martial arts and saying that they lose all of the time, instead of seeing the post in context of the question of the thread. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
jmd161 Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 Well my point did go off topic but i don't think it was irrelevent to the thread.I only brought up my point because you stated that. Traditional styles especially of chinese origin have been noticeably absent from these events and when ever they show, they lose. I wanted to show that was a flawed statement. Well maybe most people are reluctant to fight under that banner because most CMA people are not interested in UFC/NHB/Pride type events? I mean how many ppl do you see outside of MMA and Bjj circles in the UFC/Pride/NHB? How many Karate,Kung Fu,Taekwondo,Savate'etc.... people do you see in those events? I saw the post as it was written.You need to understand that there is a big misconception going on about kung fu.People that have no clue about kung fu look at statements like that and take them as fact on MA forums.That is why i will always step in to show that it is not fact. Now you may have enough knowledge to know that it's not true.But there are people here that don't.So rather than confuse them with untruths.Why not explain things out fully? Just a thought. jeff The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics.
SevenStar Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Well maybe most people are reluctant to fight under that banner because most CMA people are not interested in UFC/NHB/Pride type events? I mean how many ppl do you see outside of MMA and Bjj circles in the UFC/Pride/NHB? How many Karate,Kung Fu,Taekwondo,Savate'etc.... people do you see in those events? That's really not the issue. The issue most mma have with tma is competing... in SOMETHING...other than forms and point fighting. MMA guys respect san shou guys, judoka, kyokushin, etc.
SevenStar Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Where did you get that garbage from? "O" Onassis from kwoon.com not only fought but won in the UFC.He's a Hung Gar stylist to be more exact.[/b] As I pointed out in another thread, people always want to emphasize only the CMA, because he won. Let's not forget he also trained judo, wrestling, and FMA - he fought under the FMA banner and said that FMA AND hung gar were what he drew upon. He also said that his bread and butter was his FMA. The thing is that style in the UFC does'nt really matter. But MMA and Bjj ppl always want you to think that TCMA does'nt do well against them.It's not true.MMA and Bjj are not new like most ppl want to think.Most are just as old if not older than most kung fu styles.It's a circle. bjj is quite new. you're right about the others though. As far as style, it matters because the training methods are different. It's true that TMA haven't done well in MMA. Now, if they trained for it, I'm sure they could do fine, but they're training is not as specialized, the methods are different and until that changes, they will never win in those venues. Is that a bad thing? not really, because they don't have to compete anyway. Or, they can compete in something more specific to their style, like san shou. Everything goes in circles.Now MMA and Bjj are the new big thing on the block.A few yrs ago it was Gracie this gracie that.Now you hear MMA this MMa that.It goes that way forever.Something else will com back and start the circle again soon. gracie wasn't the big thing - his style was. MMA is about training efficiently to become the best fighter you can. MMA evolved from the gracies, basically. They introducued grappling back into the fight scene. the strikers who knew they wanted to win HAD to train grappling. the grapplers then HAD to train striking so that they wouldn't be at a disadvantage. It's got nothing to do with a circle. MMA is about change. Something I'd like to see more of in TMA.
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