Rich67 Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I just wanted some opinions and want to generate a discussion. What's everyone's feelings on young kids (I'm talking 8 thru 12 year olds) being given black belts? At what age do you think that a person should be a black belt? Do you think there should be a minimum age requirement for obtaining a black belt? If so, why? Just my opinion: I see a lot of dojos handing out black belts to 9 and 10 year olds. I honestly think that is too young. Call me old fashioned, but I think a black belt is more than just a colored thing you wear and show off to impress others who see you in the dojo. I think a black belt should be given not only on judge of skill, but also on mental maturity. I saw many youngsters wear the black belt and they were actually cocky... and I'm talking kids 10 years old who thought they could whoop anyone's butt. I also saw the same kids get their clocks cleaned in sparring matches with red and green belts. It bothered me, since I think it's a reflection on the instructor and dojo if their black belt kid goes out there and loses to a lower belt in a tournament. I realize that martial arts have become "commercialized" and geared toward younger students, but I still think the black belt needs to maintain it's sanctity. I received mine when I was 17, and I worked at it for 8 years, 3-4 times a week. From some of the posts I've seen, some people are saying a black can be obtained in 3-4 years. I find that ludicrous. I have trained actively in TSD for 10 years, and on my own for 10+ years. And I still don't feel as if I have mastered the art. I am always trying to improve, take other styles, etc. It almost seems as if the black belt has lost it's true meaning. Mixed Martial Artist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_karateka Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I'm not going to comment on the age of blackbelts ---at least, not yet. I wanted to comment on the section about you receiving your blackbelt in 10 years and still not feeling like you mastered the art. Remember...I black belt is the beginning and not the end. A black belt to a karateka should mean that you have a solid foundation of the basics. I got my black belt at 24 in a little under 5 years. I would have gotten it from 3-4 but sometimes being in the military interupted my training. Do I feel like I've mastered the art --- course not! KarateForums.com Sempai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacificshore Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Obtaining a black belt in 3 to 4 years is possible, it just depends on the student's determination and dedication to training. As for the mastery of one's art at the level of black, it's an on-going process. I've been studying for a long time now, and I have yet to master my art. To be honest, don't know if I ever will, but I'll sure give it a try . In respects to the issue with kids receivng black elts at an eary age, I too find that hard to accept . Di'DaDeeeee!!!Mind of Mencia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Not a fan. I have many posts on this so Im not going into much detail but it pretty much goes arround the ideas of understanding the art and not just doing the moves. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karatekid1975 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 There's an age requirement in TKD. You have to be 16. The kids get a "junior" black belt, and they don't learn as much as what the adults do. Laurie F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gheinisch Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Our Hanshi will only accept students who are 12 or older unless they have some experience then he may take them as students on a case by case basis. He will not promote anyone to Shodan until they are at least 18. That's how we do it. "If your hand goes forth withhold your temper""If your temper goes forth withold your hand"-Gichin Funakoshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returning_wave Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I am strongly against black belts under 15 years old. I feel that a black belt, as well as being something which shows technical proficiency, should symbolise a fighting ability and mental conditioning which I personally believe come with amturity as a person outside of the MA field. There are a numebr of extraordinarily young black belts in my style, and this creates a numebr of problems, including a) they are not sufficiently mentally mature and are therefore cocky and arrogant, b) they are unable to advance further (our nidan minimum age is 18) and so become bored, c) they generally do not have the fighting skills which should accompany the rank, so they are a danger to themselves when goign agaisnt others of their grade I realise this is a very generalised statement but I do honestly believe that it is very easy to be too young for the higher grades. Ive encoutnered far too many 8 yr olds sportign black belts and 1st kyu grades who couldnt defeat an untrained 15 yr old. The problem lies in that they think they could. 3rd Kyu - Variant ShotokanTaijutsu"We staunt traditionalists know that technique is nowhere near as important as having your pleats straight when you die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBN Doug Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Already a lengthy thread on this topic in MA in Politics. http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=7742&highlight=age+black Kuk Sool Won - 4th danEvil triumphs when good men do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich67 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 I'm not going to comment on the age of blackbelts ---at least, not yet. I wanted to comment on the section about you receiving your blackbelt in 10 years and still not feeling like you mastered the art. Remember...I black belt is the beginning and not the end. A black belt to a karateka should mean that you have a solid foundation of the basics.Thanks for the reply, it did not take me 10 years to earn my black belt; I have been training in TSD for 10 years total. It took me 8 years to earn the belt. I agree with you that you never master the art;and that the belt is the beginning. Perhaps my dojo was more stringent, but most of the black belts I trained with took about 7-8 years. It seems real short to me; 3-4 years. But everyone's learning curve is different. Mixed Martial Artist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aefibird Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 It has taken me just under 4 and a half years to get my shodan in Shotokan; that was with training an average of 4x per week, as well as practice evry day at home. I certainly don't feel I've come close to knowing even a small part of what karate is all about, and, if someone asked me in 10 years time if I felt I'd 'mastered' it then I'd certainly have to say no! Sometimes I still feel like a beginner, complete with flailing arms and legs... LOL j/k As for kid black belts - I don't agree with it at all. I think the minimum age someone should be awarded a black belt is 12, but even that would be in exceptional circumstances. The ideal minimum age for gaining a black belt would be about 15-16 IMO. Martial arts isn't just about learning a bunch of techniques, and young children aren't mature enough to see the deeper meanings and work past the 'bunch of techniques'. "Was it really worth it? Only time and death may ever tell..." The Beautiful South - The Rose of My CologneSheffield Steelers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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