Goju1 Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Can you please explain more about the problems experienced in later life due to Sanchin and the breathing techniques? ET There are none, if done correctly.
I-Self Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Thanks for the compliment(s). It was my pleasure. I had some typos, but I was up late getting some work done when I typed it. Karate, and MAs in general, is so interwoven in my life and has been for over 20 years now.That's just how I know it. I may be wrong about some things, but most of it is pretty on. Oh yeah, ET my Kyokushin brother (great style), if done without too much "hisssss!" or forced "hooooock!" Sanchin is a good isometric exercise. The thing with any isometric exercise, where intravascular pressure builds up, is that the blood is forcibly pumped through the vessels like a constricted hose. If you do Sanchin so hard that your eyes bulge, your face and neck turn red or purple and your neck veins become swollen then "debris" that is stuck to the walls of your vessels can dislodge and occlude in the brain or lungs. This is especially true after you are 55 or 60. This can cause a stroke or a pulmonary embolus ("blood clot" in the lungs). It is a big strain on your heart, too. Years of this could lead to serious cardio-vascular problems; even sudden paralysis or death from a CVA (stroke). Look up the lifespan of the typical Okinawan man. Compare these statistics with lifespans of the old masters of Okinawan karate, both Shorin Ryu and Goju Ryu. There is some evidence to support what many know already. Okinawan's, on the average, live at least 7-8years longer than their American counterparts. Hope this helps and feel free to criticize or correct me if I'm wrong about certain things. I like to learn. Bye:) Yes, there is a right and wrong way....There is no "Do" without "Jutsu"!
Shorinryu Sensei Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 An EXCELLENT post I-Self! However I'd just like to clarify this statement...Also part of the Seito family, Matsumura Seito Shorin Kenpo, is a style founded by Yuichi Kuda which combines the teachings of Hohan soken and Shigeru Nakamura of Okinawa Kenpo fame. It is a more rigid, deep stanced system than its Orthodox Shorin Ryu mother, but is the closest to the Seito style of Shorin. It still retains forms of the Seito kata. I have been involved exclusively for the past 29+ years now, under the teachings of Sensei Kuda and have trained in one form or another under several high ranking students of his, and under Sensei Kuda himself on 2 occasions. Not that this makes me an expert on the system, but it does give me a personal perspective on the system and it's workings. Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo, as taught by Sensei Kuda, does not have, or use, any deep, rigid stances. We utilize shorter stances found in Shorinryu with (of course) bent knees, and are very relaxed and natural. I just wanted to clarify that point, and bow to your knowledge of your post. [/b] My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!"
stencil Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Its Sanchin has been shown to be a cause of health concerns later in life and use of the "Valsalva" breathing has led to the shortened life-spans of many of its great practitioners. This has never been proven, and if done properly, Sanchin is an excellent exercise that has many health benefits. If done improperly, like any other exercise, it can lead to injury.
hobo6 Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Sorry I-self, but you just opened a tin o' whup-*** with your comments on Matsubayashi-ryu. Seriously, though your essay was mostly spot on, i couldn't let your erroneous comments on Matsubayashi slip by. I'm not sure where you got your info, perhaps from a sempai/sensei with an axe to grind, or someone trying to instill loyalty since Matsubayashi keeps winning legions of "converts" every year. If there are two things the Nagamine/Honbu organization (don't even get me started on the splinter groups ) is known and respected for by karate-ka of all styles the world over it is: a. strict adherence to traditonal kata, kihon, bunkai and applications. and... b. kumite prowess in and out of the dojo. It was not long ago that Matsubayashi-ka were looked down upon for "thuggish/brutish" approach to kumite and self-defence. Even Joe Lewis in his prime thought the training was "too much." Even Teruo Hayashi of Shito-ryu went to Nagamine to learn kata and kumite. What's good enough for Hayasi... As for kobudo: ever hear of Ota, Oshihiro, Ueshiro, or Kishaba. Didn't mean to go off on a rant or tangent. Just had to represent. Have a good day.
Goju1 Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Its Sanchin has been shown to be a cause of health concerns later in life and use of the "Valsalva" breathing has led to the shortened life-spans of many of its great practitioners. This has never been proven, and if done properly, Sanchin is an excellent exercise that has many health benefits. If done improperly, like any other exercise, it can lead to injury. Yep! Too bad so few know the proper techniques
I-Self Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 First my Machimura brother: "I have been involved exclusively for the past 29+ years now, under the teachings of Sensei Kuda and have trained in one form or another under several high ranking students of his, and under Sensei Kuda himself on 2 occasions. Not that this makes me an expert on the system, but it does give me a personal perspective on the system and it's workings. Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo, as taught by Sensei Kuda, does not have, or use, any deep, rigid stances. We utilize shorter stances found in Shorinryu with (of course) bent knees, and are very relaxed and natural. I just wanted to clarify that point, and bow to your knowledge of your post." Thank you, and you probably knew that stuff anyway. I train with Charles Tatum one pf the people who Kuda stated was truly qualified to teach his style (the other being Greg Ohl and our sensei). Our sensei is Sensei Ron Lindsey. He was president of Yuichi Kuda Shinshii's organization. He would beg to differ with you as would I. I have seen both and although very similar they are also different. Nakamura's teachings did influence some things about Kuda's principles. That is why the style is delineated from the orhtodox karatejutsu taught by Lindsey and a few others. Still, you may learn things the way I've learned them. I could be wrong. I'd have to train with you to know for sure. Anyway, it is a good style and Kuda's people were always known for their kumite skills. Props.Sorry I-self, but you just opened a tin o' whup-*** with your comments on Matsubayashi-ryu. Seriously, though your essay was mostly spot on, i couldn't let your erroneous comments on Matsubayashi slip by. I'm not sure where you got your info, perhaps from a sempai/sensei with an axe to grind, or someone trying to instill loyalty since Matsubayashi keeps winning legions of "converts" every year. If there are two things the Nagamine/Honbu organization (don't even get me started on the splinter groups ) is known and respected for by karate-ka of all styles the world over it is: a. strict adherence to traditonal kata, kihon, bunkai and applications. and... b. kumite prowess in and out of the dojo. It was not long ago that Matsubayashi-ka were looked down upon for "thuggish/brutish" approach to kumite and self-defence. Even Joe Lewis in his prime thought the training was "too much." Even Teruo Hayashi of Shito-ryu went to Nagamine to learn kata and kumite. What's good enough for Hayasi... As for kobudo: ever hear of Ota, Oshihiro, Ueshiro, or Kishaba. Didn't mean to go off on a rant or tangent. Just had to represent. Have a good day. Hey step off or get stepped on! Just jokin'! Yeah Joe Lewis helped to create kickboxing. Talk about brutish and a little being too much! But for the reals, I speak about Matsubayashi from experience. I started in Shorinkan (Kobayashi) in SE Asia. When I got to where I am now, I went searching for a good Shorin Ryu dojo. I found one that was cool, and it happened to be a school under Eihachi Ota's org.. There was a lot of calisthenics and sparring (with no face contact which was new to me), and also kata. I was ranked a 1st kyu in Matsubayashi when I moved on to my present style. I was pretty familiar with it, the Shorinkan way and now the Matsumura Seito way. They are all very different in an alike way. What I experienced at the Matsubayashi dojo was odd to me. The kumite was half-hearted and none of its "players" was really that impressive. Everyone seemed slow to me for Shorin stylists, especially their hand techniques. They always jocked the Shuri Ryu cats they trained with. That was ridiculous to me. They made the weaker kids fight and get a beatdown just because the BBs and senior students were sadistic and a-holes who couldn't do shite themselves. I took it out on the higher ranks when it came to my kumite and SD when testing for Brown. The yudansha I saw there couldn't hold a candle to even the purple belts I had in my Kobayashi class. That is my evaluation. I definitely left that school with a bad taste in my mouth, and a desire to discontinue any karate as I was discouraged by what Americans thought a karate-ka was supposed to be. From day one the sensei (who never taught) tried to get me to compete. That was their focus (trophies in the window), although he did stress kata a lot. The thing is what good is kata if it has lost its depth? The motions were correct, but I alreaday had something to compare it to. When I moved on to Matsumura Orthodox I found that even what I thought I knew as karate was inefficient and too dramatic. "Schoolboys" karate is the norm here, Europe, Asia, Japan and Okinawa. Nagamine's style does fit in that category (to many of the old school sensei). Still, it's better than a lot of the other ryu out there. Ota is truly good and his kobudo is excellent. When I use the term Kobujutsu, I mean it in its original meaning- "Old War Art". This included empty-hands and weapons. There was no separate distinction. So maybe I should have said Okinawan "koryu". BTW kumite means nil unless you do it all out full-contact with no "yame" everytime someone gets grazed. 2-4 min rounds all out, with some grappling and sweeping. You gotta at least allow controlled backfists and ridgehands to the face and head. That's about 75% of Shorin's repertoire- Hands! Still, it's not real fighting and it will only slightly prepare you for that. Don't rely that much on kumite unless you do Kyokushikai or one of its offshoots. Now that's KOOOOO-MahTay! Yes, there is a right and wrong way....There is no "Do" without "Jutsu"!
kotegashiNeo Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 what was the tread on again? I am right you are wrong I am sure it was something else but I can't seem to remember ............ Kisshu fushin oni te hotoke kokoro
equaninimus Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 I hate to do this, well, no I don't.... the Shorinkan group is not the Matsubayashi ryu. Shorinkan is Nakazato Shugero's group, and is strictly from the Itosu lineage, whereas Nagamine's Matsubayashi ryu descended from Itosu, Motobu, Arakaki, and (perhaps, though Matsubayashi later admitted he only trained with Kyan's students, not wiht Kyan himself) Kyan. So, if you were doing Kobayashi Shorin ryu, you were not doing Matsubayahi, by definition. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!
EvilTed Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 "Don't rely that much on kumite unless you do Kyokushikai or one of its offshoots. Now that's KOOOOO-MahTay" Aye, I-Self, my knowledgable brother, I almost broke my other foot in kumite today. Hard jodan mawashi-geri, aiming to hit my oponent in the liver with my shin at close distance, but as I threw it, he saw it and stepped back and my instep impacted on his hip bone That feckin hurt and I've had ice on it for the last few hours but I'll live Osu! ET "Oh yeah? - how well do they fight?"
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