disadvantages of passive blocking

[Sasori_Te]

"passive blocking"?? only works for sparring situations. In a fight where actual blows are traded you may very well receive broken bones for your effort. I saw a guy have his ulna literally shattered trying to cover from against a kick (and that was in a class setting). I still maintain that there is no such thing as a block just for the sake of blocking a technique. My philosophy is in my signature.

[SevenStar]

If you mean just leaving a guard in place by your head and moving it minimally to cover, like a boxer, there are several disadvantages:

 

*Your vision is restricted.

 

your opponent is in front of you. your vision is not restricted unless there are multiple attackers, in which case, you are getting hit anyway.

 

*Your arms and hands can be targeted for strikes.

 

if you're in a fight, your time would be better spent hitting him where he's open, not trying to deaden his arm.

 

*Your guard can be hooked or grabed.

 

you have to reach to hook it, leaving a wide opening on yourself...

 

*Elbow strikes will both clear and penetrate this guard.

 

how so? you have another hand... it seems to be no problem for thai boxers, who are very intimate with the use of elbows...

 

*You leave lower targets unguarded.

 

1. if you are doing that, you are raising your arm too high.

 

2. some people sink when they cover, that way the blow lands higher on the head - less chance of a KO that way, as you aren't getting hit in the jaw. the lowering also makes my lower targets lower, so that strike that wouldn've hit my ribs will now only hit my elbow.

 

*This guard encourages fighting from a crouch, in which case I'd prefer the grapplers guard.

 

no it doesn't.

 

*You have to let them get too close before you block.

 

that's the whole point. you want to keep as tight as possible. when you extend an arm, I can smack it down, trap it, etc. plus you are open for a longer period of time. If you are in the habit of reaching, I can time that, then fake a strike to get you to reach and block. When you do, I can clobber you with something else.

 

*Quick, effective counter strikes.

 

you can counter quickly with a block. Now, to get specific, it's quicker if you intend on countering with the same hand you covered with. I wouldn't reccomend that though.

 

*It lets you get in closer where knees and elbows can be used.

 

it doesn't let you get in closer... your footwork lets you get in closer. Once you are in, it allows you to stay covered if need, as strikes will be coming at you faster.

[SevenStar]

another tactic against the round house is to step into it. the closer you are to it, the less the impact will be, plus you can attack his base leg and take him down.

[delta1]

SevenStar,

 

In a fight, you will probably get hit no matter how many or few your opponents. And 'on the street', there are allways multiple opponents until it is over and there weren't any others.

 

You are blinded because your hand position covers your peripheral vision. Opponents tend to move and throw strikes from your side. Your view of them is momentarily restricted until you cover step to face them.

 

Hitting a nerve, or especially the back of his hand, is to cause pain and possibly create an opening. If that fails (nothing works 100%), the deadening may be a bonus bennifit. Typically you would strike as you move and roll another strike over the clearing strike from his blind spot.

If you mean just leaving a guard in place by your head and moving it minimally to cover, like a boxer, there are several disadvantages:

 

Your guard can be hooked or grabed.

Centerline theory. Move off the central line as you hook his guard and again roll a strike over. Or just move and check as you fire in a low line punch. If I move to the side, I also leg check. His off side weapons are out of play and I control his near side. Nothing open except him.

 

Elbow strikes will both clear and penetrate this guard. They penetrate because they are quick, hard to see developing, and keep your leverage in close where it works for you. And again, nothing is 100%. Against a Thai Boxer, you gave the reason it might not work. They are very familiar with it.

1. if you are doing that, you are raising your arm too high.

 

2. some people sink when they cover, that way the blow lands higher on the head - less chance of a KO that way, as you aren't getting hit in the jaw. the lowering also makes my lower targets lower, so that strike that wouldn've hit my ribs will now only hit my elbow.

 

1. Yes.

 

2. You don't crouch, but you sink? Explain the difference, please. Also, there is a cavity at the top of your head, and a good thrusting hammerfist could stun or drop you in the position you describe.

*You have to let them get too close before you block.

 

that's the whole point. you want to keep as tight as possible. when you extend an arm, I can smack it down, trap it, etc. plus you are open for a longer period of time. If you are in the habit of reaching, I can time that, then fake a strike to get you to reach and block. When you do, I can clobber you with something else. ...*It lets you get in closer where knees and elbows can be used.it doesn't let you get in closer... your footwork lets you get in closer. Once you are in, it allows you to stay covered if need, as strikes will be coming at you faster.

 

No one ruled out footwork, and I've said before that my guard changes as the fight changes. I also agree that reaching, or overextending is not a good thing. Niether is getting a rythm, or standing still and depending on a block to stop an attack. You may be able to strike, slap down or trap a limb in any position. It is much easier if overextended or tense. I try not to do either.

 

Lastly, the original post was talking about not blocking, just covering. But I think I also mentioned quicker counters and blocks in close as an advantage.

 

Edit: Sorry guys, I hit the submit instead of the preview while I was composing. Bear with me a bit...

 

Edit: ok, that's probably clean enough. Have at me, you verbal sparing maniacs!

Edited January 23, 2004 by delta1

[delta1]

another tactic against the round house is to step into it. the closer you are to it, the less the impact will be, plus you can attack his base leg and take him down.

 

True. Be careful you don't take a knee, but that is a good point. You can counterstrike and/or jam, or attack his base, while his leg is still in the air.

[SevenStar]

another tactic against the round house is to step into it. the closer you are to it, the less the impact will be, plus you can attack his base leg and take him down.

 

True. Be careful you don't take a knee, but that is a good point. You can counterstrike and/or jam, or attack his base, while his leg is still in the air.

 

as you step in, you are angling yourself - the knee isn't an issue. ever see two MT guys in a clinch? the one blocking the knees thrusts his hip into his opponent. even if the knee connects, it's not enough force to do any real damage.

[SevenStar]

SevenStar,

 

In a fight, you will probably get hit no matter how many or few your opponents.

 

agreed. that wasn't the issue. The issue was visibility. that guard will not restrict your visibility of the guy in front of you.

 

And 'on the street', there are allways multiple opponents until it is over and there weren't any others.

 

not always. most people crowd around and watch. an ambusing, mugging, etc.? yeah, it will usually be multi, but the average "you bumped into me or looked at me funny" etc. type fight occurs one on one on a fairly regular basis.

 

You are blinded because your hand position covers your peripheral vision. Opponents tend to move and throw strikes from your side. Your view of them is momentarily restricted until you cover step to face them.

 

no it's not. if a person sidesteps and gets way into your blindspot, then he took a HUGE step.

 

Hitting a nerve, or especially the back of his hand, is to cause pain and possibly create an opening. If that fails (nothing works 100%), the deadening may be a bonus bennifit. Typically you would strike as you move and roll another strike over the clearing strike from his blind spot.

 

yeah, I know about limb destructions. One I liked in my jun fan days was parrying incoming punches downward - into my elbow. In a fight, that's not my goal. If you are covering, I'm not gonna reach out for that hand. I'm going to clinch and throw, or hit where you are open. remember, I want you out of commission ASAP.

 

Centerline theory. Move off the central line as you hook his guard and again roll a strike over. Or just move and check as you fire in a low line punch. If I move to the side, I also leg check. His off side weapons are out of play and I control his near side. Nothing open except him.

 

maybe if he's standing still. But he will be in motion also. When you reach out for that arm, what's stopping me from doing a level change and shooting under you with a double leg? The "what if" thing can go back and forth all day...

 

Elbow strikes will both clear and penetrate this guard. They penetrate because they are quick, hard to see developing, and keep your leverage in close where it works for you. And again, nothing is 100%. Against a Thai Boxer, you gave the reason it might not work. They are very familiar with it.

1. if you are doing that, you are raising your arm too high.

 

2. some people sink when they cover, that way the blow lands higher on the head - less chance of a KO that way, as you aren't getting hit in the jaw. the lowering also makes my lower targets lower, so that strike that wouldn've hit my ribs will now only hit my elbow.

 

1. Yes.

 

2. You don't crouch, but you sink? Explain the difference, please. Also, there is a cavity at the top of your head, and a good thrusting hammerfist could stun or drop you in the position you describe.

 

no difference - well, there is a difference in CMA terms, but in what I was saying, no differencee is intended. and, I am covering, remember? my temple is covered by my arm. you won't touch it.

 

Edit: Sorry guys, I hit the submit instead of the preview while I was composing. Bear with me a bit...

 

Edit: ok, that's probably clean enough. Have at me, you verbal sparing maniacs!

 

[Bdaze]

I dont quite understand a reason for this kind of blocking. any technique inchih you deliberately take the full force of a blow seems kind of self defeating. plus it leaves you wide open for a clinch.

 

you could try moving out of the way. if subtlety isn't your thing you can move out of the way and cover or block. at least this way you dont get the full force.

[aznkarateboi]

I dont quite understand a reason for this kind of blocking. any technique inchih you deliberately take the full force of a blow seems kind of self defeating. plus it leaves you wide open for a clinch.

 

you could try moving out of the way. if subtlety isn't your thing you can move out of the way and cover or block. at least this way you dont get the full force.

 

By covering up, you protect your body from attack while wasting minimum energy.

[delta1]

...'on the street', there are allways multiple opponents until it is over and there weren't any others.not always. most people crowd around and watch. an ambusing, mugging, etc.? yeah, it will usually be multi, but the average "you bumped into me or looked at me funny" etc. type fight occurs one on one on a fairly regular basis.

Point here is this is a general assumption, allways have to keep the possibility in mind. Friends of his, enemies of yours, accomplices to a 'set up', ... lot of scenarios where multiples could occur.

You are blinded because your hand position covers your peripheral vision. Opponents tend to move and throw strikes from your side. Your view of them is momentarily restricted until you cover step to face them.no it's not. if a person sidesteps and gets way into your blindspot, then he took a HUGE step.

Not reallly. In fact, probably not. Just move and check.

Hitting a nerve, or especially the back of his hand, is to cause pain and possibly create an opening. If that fails (nothing works 100%), the deadening may be a bonus bennifit. Typically you would strike as you move and roll another strike over the clearing strike from his blind spot.yeah, I know about limb destructions. ...In a fight, that's not my goal. If you are covering, I'm not gonna reach out for that hand. I'm going to clinch and throw, or hit where you are open. remember, I want you out of commission ASAP.

Agreed. I don't rule any of that out, though I'm not as likely as you to take it down. Remember, we're talking general possibilities here. I'd also probably move in as I strike a hand or arm, or crane or check or grab it. Just pawing at a limb is a waste as well as an unnecessary risk.

Centerline theory. Move off the central line as you hook his guard and again roll a strike over. Or just move and check as you fire in a low line punch. If I move to the side, I also leg check. His off side weapons are out of play and I control his near side. Nothing open except him.maybe if he's standing still. But he will be in motion also. When you reach out for that arm, what's stopping me from doing a level change and shooting under you with a double leg? The "what if" thing can go back and forth all day...

Absolutely true! We are talking about moments in time here- fractions of a second where speed and timeing are as or more important than technique. Fights only go static when someone is completely unconscious.

some people sink when they cover, that way the blow lands higher on the head - less chance of a KO that way, as you aren't getting hit in the jaw. the lowering also makes my lower targets lower, so that strike that wouldn've hit my ribs will now only hit my elbow.You don't crouch, but you sink? Explain the difference, please. Also, there is a cavity at the top of your head, and a good thrusting hammerfist could stun or drop you in the position you describe.no difference - well, there is a difference in CMA terms, but in what I was saying, no differencee is intended. and, I am covering, remember? my temple is covered by my arm. you won't touch it.

Not talking about the temple- there are actually three cavities located at the temple, and in really close proximity. More cavities lie close by also. That's why the temple is such a prime target, but it isn't the one I had in mind for the posture you described. Feel the very top of your head. There is a depression in the skull there, and that is where the cavity lies. I think it is called the BaiHui cavity (trying to remember- if you want to know for sure try asking Jerry love, he probably knows). That is why I specified a thrusting hammerfist strike, it has a good chance of penetrating the guard and won't hurt your hand hitting a hard target.

 

Another thing, you are primarily a grappler, right? We may be using a little different mental picture of the static, crouched, hands up guard here. Earlier I made a distinction between the grapplers guard and the boxing style guard. Most of the boxer style guarders I've spared get the hands up, and when you move in they really come up high. They try to depend on bobbing and weaving, and bouncing footwork. That's ok, but to be totally dependant on that outside the ring is a little risky, in my opinion. Most of the people I've spared who do this get a little too carried away with it and leave themselves open. Again, no absolutes. I've been beaten by boxers, but it's not the norm (not that we have a lot of for real boxers here in my area). You grapplers, on the other hand, have a tendency to do exactly the things you've described. And I want you to know, you really torque me off when you do! When an opponent shows grappling tendencies, I don't use the same guard or tactics. I also tend to get really mean. Remember, "Fear leads to suffering, suffering leads to hate, hate leads to the Dark Side." Just kidding,but I would rather face a boxer than a grappler, especially one that has good stand up skills also.