Make this a sticky lol!

[orangejuice]

I’ve never posted on this site but I have been reading it for a while, and I figured that I’d take the liberty to clear up a couple things in general:

 

--->Fighting (whether it be in the ring or self-defense on the streets) is all about odds. That’s what it all comes down to in any kind of combat. No matter how well you trained or how comprehensive your art is or how well you trained, you can still lose. A 10th dan master or whatever can lose to a untrained drunk guy from a bar, all it takes is a little misjudged footwork and he’ll set himself up for a fall from a nice haymaker right to the temple and he won’t know where he is, and the drunk guy can just proceed to GnP while he is completey disoriented. However, the odds of something like that happening are slim to none, and there are many factors that can change the odds either way, which takes me to my second point…

 

---->Factors: This is what decides your odds to winning or losing. Some of the most important factors (there are more but these were the one’s that came to mind as important):

 

1. The fighter – your skill, physical ability, and command of your art. This should pretty much go without saying.

 

2. The art – I know the saying “it’s the artist not the art”, its become somewhat of a cliché on this site. Not that it doesn’t speak some truth, but the art IS a factor, not as big as the fighter, but still a factor. You can be the greatest MT kickboxer is the world and if a half-decent BJJ fighter gets a takedown on you, if you don’t get away from him before he mounts you or gets you in his guard, your done.

 

3. Training – If you haven’t practiced it in realisitic training, chances are you can’t use it in a fight. It’s all theory without actually using it. To all those “it’s too deadly to practice” people, I don’t disagree that your methods are too deadly, but my point is, if you can’t practice it because it’s too deadly, how are you going to know if you are capable of using it against a fully-resisting opponent. A lot of those deadly techniques are taught in these “pause the moment” scenario where your sparring partner freezes in action giving you unlimited time and no resistance. Not to say that there are exceptional fighters that can use these techniques just from learning it in theory, but its safe to say that most of us on this site aren’t that talented.

 

4. Physical fitness: Being stronger and/or faster is a plus for obvious reasons.

 

--->There is no such thing as the best art, but there is a such thing as a BETTER art in CERTAIN AREAS. I think people are a little too politically correct, but when you compare two arts, they both are probably better at something than the other, because all arts have their merit and shortcomings. TKD is a great sport art, but it rely’s a little too much on kicking (and high kicking) to be good for self-defense, BJJ is amazing all groundfighting but in standing up there like a fish out of water, vice versa for MT, Capoeria isn’t that great for self-defense of ring combat, but it’s whole lotta fun, aikido is good at ending a fight without damaging the opponent to the point of a lawsuit but it takes forever to be good at it…blah blah blah (don’t start arguing with me about these examples, there are just examples, to analyze these arts you need separate threads, I was just using it to explain something.

 

--->Multiple opponents- Some important points:

 

1. GROUNDFIGHITNG WILL NOT WORK! I don’t care how many BJJ fighers come and argue with me, YOU’RE WRONG! If you hit the floor, you probably will have to grapple, and groundfighting grappling demands the use of most or all of your limbs, so you can’t strike back at any other opponents, Plus, recovering from grappling (recovering here meaning coming back to the point of being ready to engage with a new attack) takes much longer than recovering from a strike.

 

2. RUN AWAY! if you have the chance. Unless you have a weapon, the odds are much higher for the group. If you must fight, make sure you don’t hit the ground, and make sure you don’t get trapped or surrounded, both mean you’re dead.

 

3. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RING COMBAT AND FIGHTING ON THE STREETS. It is more brutal in situations such as someone robbing you, life and death, and so on. However, its interesting to note that the rules in UFC-style competition is very similar to the unwritten rules of bar/after-school fights, so the training for the ring will fair very well here, but a real fight where someone really wants to hurt you, not just boost their ego, it’s a different story (although the training for a ring will still help, just not as much as training for self-defense).

 

And that’s bout it….feel free to comment or add onto this.

[Sasori_Te]

I think you may be over-simplifying some of the examples that you use, but I agree with you for the most part. You've probably struck a few nerves around here though. *L*

[Reklats]

You'll learn about trying to use logic around here.

[WolverineGuy]

I will say this much, if you hit the ground in a multiple attacker situation, the BJJ'er is going to have an easier time getting out of it than, say, a kickboxer.

[orangejuice]

wolverineguy....absoluetly, no doubt about it. my point is though that your odds just dropped significantly if you hit the ground in a multiple person scenario. reklats...hey if you disagree or think what i said is stupid, id just like to know what exactly you didnt like about what i said. i can respect that you disagree, it at least shows that your thinking. sasori...yeah the examples are over-simplified thats why i made a note in my examples that they are not to be held as the truths for the art, i just used it as an example, thats all it is. generally...i dont think im writing anything new here, i just noticed that sometimes people forget some basic realities...you know the classic "ever seen that kung fu master vs. the MT guy...the muay thai guy kicked the * outta him...case closed MT is better"...stuff like that...i just figured a post like this would remind ppl of what they are forgetting...and if i pushed anyone's buttons...sorry...feel free to yell at me.

[Reklats]

orangejuice- Actuallly you make some great points. My post was referring to this:

You've probably struck a few nerves around here though. *L*

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

[WolverineGuy]

Well, most BJJ guys will not contend that they can handle themselves in multiple attacker situations...however, they DO contend that nobody else can really promise much better. While I don't necessarily believe that, its important to note the difference. Otherwise, nice post...a bit general, but definitely in the right direction.

[siufeifei]

I think that the one thing that everyone agrees on is that you can never tell what is going to happen in a fight. The very fact that you have put down a list of factors suggests that it is possible to predict what will happen, which just isn't true.

 

It is possible for a grappler to beat a stand up fighter, just as it is true that a grappler can beat a stand up fighter.

[orangejuice]

siufeifei...i agree with what you said...in fact that was one of my points...i dont think you understand what i was saying....its possible for anyone to beat anyone....but there are odds to what the chances are...and those factors can change the odds to lean either way...therefore a grappler will probably on the floor...vice versa for a striker...but notihng is sure..

 

one of the main reasons for those points is cause i see these stupid posts where people summarize the worth of a martial art thru one obscure fight...it takes alot more than one or two fights to establish a pattern. the only reason i posted this stuff is so that when people discuss on this site...they dont forget some basic facts and screw up the entire discussion.

[Rich_2k3]

Definatley very general, but some good points.