equaninimus Posted February 17, 2004 Posted February 17, 2004 Similarly, I have a degree in molecular bio from 1989. I would likely start a fire if let loose in a lab today! There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!
turonaga Posted February 18, 2004 Posted February 18, 2004 It's a long time ago I got my high school diploma (the equivalent actually). Do you want to take it away from me, because I haven't been there for a while? At a certain point you do an exam for something and you earn your diploma. That diploma is for life, no one can take that away from you. i agree with you but this is martial arts the very reason why it is called martial, there's no due process. i'm not saying thats how you do it just stating how we do it. why did we surrender lord?
fireka Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 by 'train' do we mean in a dojo or simply that you are training regularly, practicing technique and kata and maybe even getting some sparring in when oppritunity arrises "i could dance like that!.......if i felt like it...." -Master Betty
White Warlock Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 Similarly, I have a degree in molecular bio from 1989. I would likely start a fire if let loose in a lab today! By the same token, i have a certificate as entry computer technician from 1987, but nowadays my knowledge in computers far surpasses anything i learned then. Anyway, you know my thoughts on ranks... silly little things that they are. "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
fireka Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 I agree completly, finnaly somebody else I wish we could go back to the white to black system. "i could dance like that!.......if i felt like it...." -Master Betty
Drunken Monkey Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 ok, let's say you took some kinda exam four years ago. if you took the same exam again today, would you still pass? that's how i'm seeing this. most of your arguments are based on as assumption that the person has retained and maintained his knowledge and skills. if this the case then fine. BUT what about the cases where this just isn't so. should the guy who attained a black belt ten years but gave up training afterwards still hold the black belt when he decides to train again? what if the ten years absence means that he hardly remembers katas and is not able to do them to a satisfactory level? you can't just say 'he got the black belt, he should keep it forever' for every case. after all, the black belt is nothing but symbol of your level of skill in the martial art. if you are no longer at that level, then shouldn't you NOT be a black belt anymore? post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
White Warlock Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 Well DM, you're defining things based on a very narrow spectrum.what if the ten years absence means that he hardly remembers katas and is not able to do them to a satisfactory level? If the definition of a black belt is that he is able to 'recall' his katas, then we should sign him up for dance rehearsals. The real issue is, can he still kick your butt? And, if not, is it because he is no longer proficient in the arts, or simply out of shape?ok, let's say you took some kinda exam four years ago. if you took the same exam again today, would you still pass? Here's my take. If you've spent 3 or more years studying something that requires both mind and body (as opposed to just mind, as in the case posed by equaninimus and you), to the degree that you have been honored with a BB, you are not easily going to forget. It is very much like riding a bike. Once you know... you know. Indeed, one system I studied 15 years ago, i reentered 10 years later. It took me just one week to reach the same (actually, higher) level of expertise in that system as i had when i left.you can't just say 'he got the black belt, he should keep it forever' for every case. You know, you're absolutely right. Every black belt and accompanying certificate should have an expiration date, like cottage cheese. In fact, while we're at it, let's attach an expiration date to BAs, MAs and PhDs. Damn! I think i'm onto something here... "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
Drunken Monkey Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 i'm not being narrow, just trying to keep thing simple so as to not confuse the matter.... well, anyway, as my little post suggests and kinda asks, if he is no longer worthy of the belt status, should he still be regarded as a black belt? as you have said, the issue is can he still kick your butt? what if he can't? what if it is because he is no longer proficient AND is out of shape? i mentioned katas because i was under the assumption that black belts should lead by example and if the cannot even perform basic katas for whatever reason then that is not a good example. that is why i say this kind thing should be judged case by case. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
White Warlock Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 i'm not being narrow, just trying to keep thing simple so as to not confuse the matter.... Well, i wasn't calling you narrow, just the definition of your argument. that is why i say this kind thing should be judged case by case.But, that's just the point DM. If a person has obtained a black belt... that's it. If the first time they walk into a dojo, someone is going to rip up their certificate and repaint their belt... sounds like the best thing for them... is to stay in retirement. That's, of course, assuming they care about the stupid thing in the first place. If someone insists on keeping their black belt when they enter your school, and you don't feel they should wear it... then you can simply say to that person that you would prefer they not wear that belt in your school, or that they simply not visit your school. But i don't believe you or any other instructor, other than the one who gave the belt, has the right to take that belt away. If anything, it should be a personal decision to put the belt aside. I said it once and i'll say it again... silly little things those belts. edited... "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
Drunken Monkey Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 like i say, too much emphasis on the belt as an object. i think i would rather see if the guy is up to our 'black belt' (if we had a thing ) level. test him somehow and then let him think if he should wear his belt in our class. after all, if he insists and he keeps getting beaten on by lower grades then i think he should realise something.... i've personally never held much regard for belts. too many people obssess over them as an object and forget what they actually mean. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
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