Retaining black belt status

[ESA-Shotokan]

Hi there.

 

What is the view / opinion of people on here and your particular organisation regarding retaining of black belt status after breaks in training?

 

Most organisations allow you to continue training at the grade you left but what if you had a break of 5,6 maybe 10 years? Should you not have to retake your last grading as a minimum? Of course, you may have stayed fit, started another style, etc and so it is apparent you are in top, if not better form, but what if you are not? Ten years later, you have not trained in as many years and it looks it!

 

Such people who return to training will have to break themselves in slowly as a matter of safety but surely, there should be some specific rules regarding this?

 

Losing a grade or having to retake the grade may be seen as a "punishment" for leaving and not enouragement for restarting?

 

Over to you.

[Goju1]

My feeling is that once you've earned a rank, it is yours, period. Now if you take off for a long period of time, you would be expected to demonstrate the proper ability before being asked to test for the next rank.

[ESA-Shotokan]

That is very true!! I didn't think of that, thank you.

[aefibird]

A guy (Neil) came to visit my karate dojo about a year or so ago now. He's a nidan in shotokan and a shodan in goju, and used to have his own club. However, he hadn't trained in martial arts for about 11-12 years. He joined my club and trains semi-regualrly with us and also trains with a local goju club too. He now wants to take his next Dan gradings soon. The head of my organisation (who will be testing him for shotokan sandan) has told Neil he has to have some one-to-one lessons, either with him or my sensei to make sure he's up to scratch for sandan. Neil hasn't said what the goju club thinks about him wanting to grade after such a long absence. I just presume they'll want him to do plenty of training before he takes his Goju nidan.

 

IMO, I think a rank should stay with you for life. Just because someone doesn't train after they get that particular rank, doesn't mean they weren't up to standard to get it in the first place.

[stuey-san]

i dont want to disrespect anybody for my ideas, so please dont be offended, but i think that during any kyu grade if you do not train for 6 months you should start again from white, unless of course you have a good reason(illness etc), if you gain at least shodan or higher, but not train for at least one year you should on regard yourself as 1st kyu not a dan grade, and if anyone wanted to train in another style, regardless of grade in other style, then they shud start at 10th kyu or whatever is the lowest grade, i study shotokan but say if sensei kanazawa wanted to take up shukokai, and i was a shukokai sense, i wud expect him to start at white belt, regardless of the fact he is a 10th dan shotokan..........i am sorry if i have offended anyone, but this is my view, your grade is not a right it is a responsibility, when my sensei trained at the red triangle club, brown belts and above where expected to sign a waiver so that they behaved like senior grades should, a responsibility, however say if someone was a 3rd kyu shotokan from england and moved to america, and took up shotokan there, even tho they are training in a different dojo i would expect or at least hope that they where allowed to keep that grade, as i beleive in unity in at least styles, regardless of associations..... 3rd kyu is 3rd kyu in any given style, they move clubs theyre still 3rd kyu, agsin im sorry if i offended anyone, oh and martial arts politics sucks

[delta1]

stuey-san,

 

No offense taken, and I'll ask the same of you.

 

Taking time off, then returning to the same style and lineage, I think he should retain the highest rank earned and honorably held. He should be expected to go back to basics and clean or sharpen up his skills, which is also a good lesson for the junior belts to see. Your view on this seems to be a little legalistic, almost a punnishment for taking off. Remember what your goal is- to learn and perpetuate your art, helping others to do the same. Sometimes it is easy to loose focus and try to control others, bend them to our own will or make them clones of ourselves. I've known some really good martial artists who took time off, then came back with a renewed vigour. Offer guidance, but let him find his own way.

 

Going to a different system or even just a differnt school/lineage, expect to start over. You know little and have earned nothing in their system. What you do know should help you to advance faster. But instant gradings are a fantasy for sale to the weak minded and insecure. As a senior practicioner of any style, you should be above accepting that in the first place.

[stuey-san]

i do agree, maybe my sensei is more leniant than i would be, he let a guy who was first kyu come back and train from 5th kyu after 2 years, my point is delta, that its a responsibility, after say you earn a certain grade and to give it up with no real excuse, and then come back

 

in my opinion it is cheeky and disrespectful, ive seen ppl come back after a few years and maybe they where brilliant at the time, and then to come back and expect everyone to think that theyre brilliant, but the people who were at the same grade as them when sed person has left have excelled past, the person still thinks theyre as good as them, even thoughb theyve been training for years and the other person hasnt, imho it is just a matter of respect, respect your sensei, respect your dojo, respect your style, and dont leave for ages and expect to come back as same grade

[kotegashiNeo]

Look someone who takes a break from trainning doesn't forget all the kata they'd learned, so to start all over is silly. However extensive trainning may be required to regain their former skill level and maybe re-test

[stuey-san]

wether or not they forget the kata is regardless, the person has not attended karate for so many amount of months for a reason other than they can not be bothered, a huge aspect of karate is respect, they have no reason to not turn up, they dont retain what is expected of their grade, i have been doing karate for only 18 months and i realise this, if you dont wanna train dont, fair enough but dont come and go as you please

[Hoju]

Rank isn't just a matter of memorizing forms and combos though. It is also refining techniques, increasing your reaction time and just general overall ability - much of which you never lose, period. I know a guy - second degree blackbelt - who hasn't trained in going on two years. But man, he is still as sharp as ever & although he's a little rusty, I'd put my faith in him in a second.

 

I think extended absenses need to be made up for in terms of additional training & refreshers, but much of the stuff that makes your belt level your belt level are instinctual & practical things that you will never forget.