Flawed as a fighter?

[SevenStar]

OK, let me get a couple of things strait here. If Joe Avarage attacs you on the street he would not know a thing about striking but he knows a lot about grappling/wrestling? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so! In all the fights I have had I never EVER had one of them on the ground, it was striking\kicking all over the place and dare the man who fell to the ground! I personally think you are far better of in a self defence situation knowing a striking art than a grappling art, both striking and grappling is better yet, but if you only gonna use your MA for self defence, then pick a striking art for sure! [/b]

 

no, they don't know grappling, but falling is almost inevitable. especially if you have at least one person who doesn't know how to fight. he may fall into you, and you both fall. he may intentionally drag you down. he may try to knock you down so he can stomp you. plenty of fights I've witnessed have gone to the ground (none of the ones I've been in have though), and for the reasons stated above. Also, many fights go to a clinch. grappling will give you an advantage here, as grapplers are extremely comfortable in a clinch.

 

Forget what you see in UFC, most fights are over in 3 seconds!

 

not true.

 

You don't have the time fooling around on the ground or roll with him until he chokes or taps out, just take him out with punch and/or kicks and get the he77 out of the situation, he might have friends!.

 

but you have time to throw your point sparring back fist and a jump spiining crescent kick? be serious dude...you can't be so blinded to not know that those joint locks are actually breaks - they won't wait till you tap. Also, think about it...if you know how to grapple, that will enable you to stand up to your feet more quickly. Here's a quick question for you - Let's say you are in a fight and get knocked down. explain to me how you will stand up. Not as far as defending yourself with any technique, just stand up. how will you stand up?

 

I know that many styles, grappling styles included, that don't have self defence training at all or training self defence unrealisticklly, but it all depence on what you gonna use it for, self defence or competition. No disrespect, but I think TKD is a scary example, just so many people thinks that there TKD gonna save them, but they are so wrong! High kicks, unrealistic blocks, pretty, fancy stuff and fair game just isn't for the streets, believe me, I've tried!.

 

that's because you suck - no offense. but seriously, if you can't apply your art, it's not the art's fault, it's yours. I have friends that have defended themselves several times using TKD. Granted, I feel better knowing thai boxing and bjj, but I've seen TKD used successfully.

 

No more than rolling on the ground is realistic in a street fight!. But thats my opinion. I do not train to do any competition, I train strickly for self defence and have no fancy stuff, just stuff that works. I would defentlly go for a striking art, or pure self defence art, not for cross training or pure grappling.

 

like I said, by grappling, you enable yourself to get up quickly and more efficiently. nothing fancy about it. it all works.

[SevenStar]

Maybe your right, but I still prefer to hit my attacker rather than grab him or throw him.[/b]

 

I'll let you punch me in the face if you let me throw you head first on the concrete. Afterwards, we'll see who hurts worse.

 

What IF he isn't unarmed, he has a consealed knife!. You do not know that and if you fooling people to wrestle with a bullie on the street you sure ask for them to get stabed!.

 

In that case, you will be trying to fight someone with an uncontrolled blade... NOT ADVISABLE. As johnny pointed out, when dealing with a blade, you need to control them. However, the first option against a knife is to run. Only fight if you have to.

 

Flawed or not, I still put my money on distance, holding the attacker away from me, kicking and hitting him. I can take a hit or two, but a knife?. Think about it, would you take that change??.

 

see above, and also read johnny's post.

 

Again, no disrespect to other styles and systems, but I really think you over estimate grappling!. If you are close enough to grab him he is close enough to stab you, if you keep him in your hitting distance atleast you have a change to see that knife!.

 

while you are striking, do you think that I cannot cut your wrists, arm, leg, ankles, etc? whatever you put near the knife can be cut.

 

So sorry, but I do not bye that "are not fully efficent as a fighter if you don't graple" propaganda anymore!.

 

From the way you're posting, maybe you should...

[SevenStar]

WC Strayder,

 

What makes you think you'll even see the knife if it's concealed and he starts stabbing you with it? From reports of people who have been stabbed, they didn't even realise they were being stabbed and just thought they were being punched until they looked down afterwards.

 

Most of the knife defense you see (and I'm not tlaking about karate or kung-fu knife defense) involves controlling the attacker, which is what grappling does.

 

exactly. I know someone who war repeatedly being cut by a razor and didn't realize it until after the fact.

[Rich_2k3]

Are there many knife defences in throwing/grappling arts, ie. ju jitsu. In the style of Karate I do there are loads.

[SevenStar]

depends on where you're training, as with any style.

[jeffrogers]

Yep sevenstar ko'ed the correct. Depends on the instructor. For example TKD. Some places focus on tradional tkd which okay. But they are locked into t here own frame work of there style. I met instructor who won't look really that much out side of her style. I saw how her students performed I wasn't impressed. There are other TKD that focus a bit more on self defense and do more heavy contact. And then there are places that just do point sparring and focus on tournment training.

 

Same with Jiu-Jitsu or other grappling arts. Some that focus on both tournaments as far as just gi or no gi tournemnts. Others do just gi. Others just no gi. Others both no gi and gi and self defense. and MMA training. depends on what gym you go to and the instructors training emphasis and his/her skill level.

 

-Jeff

[WC-Strayder]

OK 7*. I know I maybe stretched this "striker" thing a little far but hey, it is only a forum and it is made for different opinions, right?.

 

My point is that you can fight a street fight knowing absolutlly nothing about grappling or wrestling AND win the whole thing against Joe Avarage! I've done it many times , so believe me, you do not have to know anything about grappling OR striking at all, just have the will to win and the will to damage other people badly, coz that is what you gonna do to win a street fight. Just knock'em dead and forget what style you do!

 

Forget the fair and noble, coz there isn't any! Show no m ercy, coz they sure as he77 don't gonne show you anY!!

 

My point is: Do I need more than Wing Chun to win a street fight agains Joe Avarage, maybe a drunk Joe Avarage? No, I do not think so! No, I'm not trying to be ignorant or stupid, just realistic!. I know a street fight depence on a lot of factors, factors you just can't relly on, but knowing what I know that would be like shooting a tiny bird with a AH-64 Apache Longbow, a sure overkill! But then again, many things could happend... He could be a grappler, coz grapplers, as I understand them, are known to be very violent and out on the towns just to beat up strikers...... se my point????

 

In my club we focus purelly on self defence, no magic, no bullshite, just things that works in every imagineble situation, how many of your clubs do focus on that?. (Answer this with your hand on your heart?)

 

Knife or no knife, gun or no gun, I'll still go for a striking art, coz thats is what you usually would need in a street fight!

 

And, off cause, where is my manners....Happy new year to everybody here on forum, no offence........ LOL

[aefibird]

I think that if you get into a fight with an average Joe, especially one who is drunk, then, yeah, s few striking techniques will probably save you. However, if you get into a fight with someone who really knows their stuff then you're in trouble if you only know striking or only know grappling!

 

Im a karateka and I know that (even though my instructor does a little grappling with us) my grappling technique is seriously weak. Hopefully I'll never have to use my marial arts knowledge on the street, but even if I don't a good knowledge of grappling will help make me more rounded as a fighter and can only help to improve my karate. That's one of the reasons I took up aikido (I wanted to do judo but the local club looks cr*p and there's no bjj club near me...), because it will help me to develop as a martial artist.

 

So, yeah, the point of this long and rambling post was to say that, even if you're never gonna use the skills in a real street fight, learning a grappling art if you're a striker and vice versa is a good thing IMO.

[Rich_2k3]

U have a very good point there WC-strayder and in my style of Karate self defence is a big issue and there are loads of different knife defences. However, its not just about learning the best ways to defend ur self, its also about improving ur physique and fitness level to cope with a self defence situation and for a healthy life. Its also about the competition side of it and enjoying ur style. And this "magic" that u say is the mental side of it, now it doesnt have to be spiritual or anything, its about mental discepline, being able to take pain, being able to call out (kiai!) and rip ur fist threw ur opponent , and finally being able to push ur self beyond ur limits when ur training or working-out or whatever, so ur chances in a street fight are greatly increased. Remember theres lots of reasons why ppl do martial arts and self defence is one of them (and the most important) but to ensure ur survival in a street fight agaisnt a knife or maybe someone alot bigger than ur average joe u need to be the best in every way, now ask ur self one thing, is there really anything wrong with a bit of perfection.

[jeffrogers]

hmmmm... Grapplers look to beat up strikers? Not even going to comment on that. I smell trolling going on here.

 

Actually you really don't know of average joe. You gut lucky with some guys who didn't know or wasn't as good as you were in the fight at the time. I met quite a bit of people who did a little bit of wrestling or boxing, or other stuff that seemed like the average joe to me.

 

-Jeff