Flawed as a fighter?

[Rich_2k3]

WC-Strayder, grappling is NOT just about if the fight goes on the ground, it is mainly about THROWING ur opponent, if u are grabbed, say a bear hug or headlock or somthing u'd find it very easy if u could initiate a throw on them. This is text book self defence, theres nothing fancy about it, he grabs u and u throw him, thats it. Now I have no experience with throwing arts or grappling, I am simply a Karateka and yes I know in Karate that u do learn techniques for escaping from locks or grabs, but studying a throwing art gives u that extra advantage, and in most fights if the person does not do any damage with his punches he will imidiately try to tackle u, and thats when it is needed, plus when u do a throwing art u will have lots more experience in escaping from locks. Remember this is about being flawed as a fighter, and even though some situations may rarely occur they still might, and if ur not ready 4 them then u have a weakness somewere and are not fully efficent as a fighter.

 

p.s I think u have been watching too much UFC becuase throwing/grappling arts are not just about groundwork.

[WC-Strayder]

Maybe your right, but I still prefer to hit my attacker rather than grab him or throw him. What IF he isn't unarmed, he has a consealed knife!. You do not know that and if you fooling people to wrestle with a bullie on the street you sure ask for them to get stabed!.

 

Flawed or not, I still put my money on distance, holding the attacker away from me, kicking and hitting him. I can take a hit or two, but a knife?. Think about it, would you take that change??.

 

Again, no disrespect to other styles and systems, but I really think you over estimate grappling!. If you are close enough to grab him he is close enough to stab you, if you keep him in your hitting distance atleast you have a change to see that knife!.

 

So sorry, but I do not bye that "are not fully efficent as a fighter if you don't graple" propaganda anymore!.

[Rich67]

I don't think "flawed" is the right word. I know some really good fighters who trained in grappling only, and they have an excellent defense. Punches and kicks are hard to score on those guys, so they draw you in and then take you down. On the other side of the coin, I practiced a lot of avoidance to takedowns, and when I spar with my buddy who has studied under Machado JJ, he has a heckuva time bringing me to the ground or clinching without getting beat. But if he does get me on the ground, I'm pretty much screwed in about 2 minutes. I think you should be well rounded in both ground work and basic stand-up fighting, but it all depends on what techniques you train with. A good stand-up guy can hold his own pretty well against a grappler as long as he is trained to avoid takedowns and standing locks/chokes. But I think grapplers should learn stand-up fighting since the fight can be won either way. A well-rounded grappler will beat a stand-up only guy in a street fight a good percentage of the time, IMO.

[JohnnyS]

WC Strayder,

 

What makes you think you'll even see the knife if it's concealed and he starts stabbing you with it? From reports of people who have been stabbed, they didn't even realise they were being stabbed and just thought they were being punched until they looked down afterwards.

 

Most of the knife defense you see (and I'm not tlaking about karate or kung-fu knife defense) involves controlling the attacker, which is what grappling does.

[TJS]

WC Strayder,

 

What makes you think you'll even see the knife if it's concealed and he starts stabbing you with it? From reports of people who have been stabbed, they didn't even realise they were being stabbed and just thought they were being punched until they looked down afterwards.

 

Most of the knife defense you see (and I'm not tlaking about karate or kung-fu knife defense) involves controlling the attacker, which is what grappling does.

 

Your right about that part, I have read some intresting studies done on police officers and knife attacks. Very very few knew they were being attacked with a knife until after it was over.

[JohnnyS]

Have any of you guys seen a video that the LAPD put out about 10-15 years ago on knife attacks? If you get the chance to see it then take it. It demonstrates how dangerous a knife is and shows some footage of people being stabbed, as well as the wounds afterwards.

[Sasori_Te]

Well, even though it is slightly off the topic, let me put my 2 cents in. I've trained with a guy in Phoenix named Ernie Mayer and he is EXCELLENT with all sorts of bladed weapons. We started the very first training lesson with him telling me what knife attack he was going to perform and where he was going to cut me. He told me to do whatever it was that I was trained to do. By the time I had parried the knife and grabbed the weapon arm to control it he had "cut" me more than a half dozen times. Now, you might say this was lack of training on my part but I have seen him do this to several higher legitimate dan ranks and the result was the same. You really don't ever want to have to deal with someone that truly knows how to use a knife unless you have a gun and some distance to use it. Other than that, be prepared to bleed some.

[Reklats]

Forget what you see in UFC, most fights are over in 3 seconds! You don't have the time fooling around on the ground or roll with him until he chokes or taps out, just take him out with punch and/or kicks and get the he77 out of the situation, he might have friends!

 

Grappling isn't just about submitting someone. Knowing the best way to end up sitting on someones chest during a fight is a good thing.

[jeffrogers]

You got to be trained in both grappling and striking to be well rounded. Would you do well on a street with just one style yeah probably. But then again there are alot of unknowns in that factor of street. To many variables. so bottom line is you got to be well rounded as possible.

 

Oh and if you get a skilled grappler he learns to control those arms well. were its difficult to get that knife out in the first place. but again there are variables. If you like striking great do it. Don't want to grapple thats fine. You don't think you need to grapple? think again. I feel bad if your put in that situatioin hopefully not.

 

Me I am grappler I also learned karate actually first and little bit of kick boxing. But I enjoy grappling that is were I like to be. But I know its important so I want to learn to box well and kick box also. More you leave your self in one dimisenion the rest is weak. Royce Gracie proved that in the UFC. It isn't just the UFC look at Gracie's in action same on there.

 

But still more fighters are learning other stuff. So hopefully you never actually get in a fight with some one who does know both sides. You may be a better striker but if you can't defend take downs. He will dominate you in the fight. Just my opinion.

 

-Jeff

[SevenStar]

no. it depends on how you train thats way they say to be a master of a few good moves. M. Ali was the master of jab gross. super foot bill wallace was the master of the side kick. i'm telling you if you master a few techniques than watch out now.

 

That's fine and good but you need to have skills in all ranges. You CAN be taken down. Period. and when it happens, neither a jab nor sidekick will save you. Same goes for a grappler - his ground skills aren't gonna help too much while he's standing.