ESA-Shotokan Posted January 3, 2004 Posted January 3, 2004 In my 20+ years of studying shotokan karate, it has dawned on me of late that I have never been taught, by a sensei, the jumping kicks. I am referring to mae-tobi geri, yoko-tobi geri, etc. Now I have in the past read about the execution of these particular kicks and hence, have taught myself the basics and application of said techniques, but I wonder what experience other people on here have, regarding this? I realise the original use of such techniques was to enable the forced dismounting of an opponent on horseback, which I guess in this day and age would be quite a rare thing, depending on where you live of course! Kanku-dai applies mae-tobi geri near the end but outside of that, such a thing is a rare thing indeed. Again, I have seen extensive use of such techniques in demonstration karate but this kicking style appears to be more geared towards tae-kwon do and certain kung fu arts. Curious.
equaninimus Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 I realise the original use of such techniques was to enable the forced dismounting of an opponent on horsebackUnlikely. That's probably best put in the box with Okinawans punching through armour, and the nunchaku used as a rice flail. Most likely jumping kicks were used for training in leg strength. They occur in Shotokan in the Kankus, Gankaku, and Unsu (tobi mikazuki geri/tobi ushiro geri), and in many other styles as well. I have read McCarthy's theory that jumps in Kata represent the opponent being thrown, but have major questions about this conclusion. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!
kotegashiNeo Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 Jumping kicks in my humble estamation are pure ego. Some will no doubt disagree but speed and strength make a kick not the ooohhh awww of on lookers. I gave them up the impact on the joints shorten your overall life span as a martial artist. Kisshu fushin oni te hotoke kokoro
Karateka Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 I too have heard that the Tobi Kicks were meant to take down persons on horseback. As for the comment on being just for show...none of the traditional kata's, in my opinion, have moves which are there for show or are just "sets". There is application for the movement, its just not always literal. Sometimes you have to extend certain moves outside the Kata. Kata's are guides to be built on to train, not blueprints to be followed in your mind to the letter. I hope people understand what I am trying to say. "Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)
Ripper Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 I have read McCarthy's theory that jumps in Kata represent the opponent being thrown, but have major questions about this conclusion.I've heard of this theory too and I think it could be right. The main argument in favor of this theory is that you use the same muscles when you throw someone. René
ronryu Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 I have wondered about this aswell. the only kata I know of that has the jump kicks in them are Kosokun dai, Chinto, Superempi, I have seen the shotokan unsu that has the jumpspin cresent but in the Shito ryu version that does not apper. I useally bunkai these as either 2 front kicks or it works really well if you have some one charging in on you and do the jump front kick as soon as you come up it with your knee to get up it stops them. othere then that I dont see much use for them. Karate is not a sport , it is a way of life .Sandan Motobu ha Shi-to ryu karate Katsu ryu kempo Ryukyu kobudo
Ripper Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 Ronryu, in Shito you have Pinans, right? Maybe another good example then is the Pinan Godan (or Heian Godan for me). I'm not sure it is in the Pinan but in the Heian there is a jump. They used to tell me it was for jumping over a stick...yeah right, tell that to my grandmother. A better explanation would be: someone tries to 'bear hug' you from behind. With your left you grab his right wrist from above. Then you use your right arm to get under his right arm. If you can (off course not in the dojo) grab his hair. Pivot and throw him (or her) to the ground. In judo it is called ippon seionage. René
ronryu Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 Yes Ripper we do the Pinan kata. In Pinan godan we do not do the jump like in the Heian kata we jsut do a turn and then the kosa uke (cross block) Karate is not a sport , it is a way of life .Sandan Motobu ha Shi-to ryu karate Katsu ryu kempo Ryukyu kobudo
equaninimus Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 Same in Seibukan. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!
Karateka Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 You don't do the jump in your style of Shito-Ryu? We do it in ours, and I saw some other styles of it do it. Hmmm, maybe we are the odd ones out? "Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)
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