tommarker Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Is TKD karate? Is Karate TKD? Does it really matter? Is it going to change anything? Would it change how people practice TKD or karate? What is karate? Is it Shorin/Goju/Isshin/Shito/Wado-ryu? Etc. What is TKD? Is it WTF/ITF/TKD-HKD/MDK-TKD/Songham/Olympic? Etc. To some, "karate" is a generic throwaway term that means empty hand and is really just a japanese word meant to describe a stylized concept of combat. They may call Tang Soo Do, Isshin Ryu, Shaolin, etc "karate." Other people seem to put the word on a pedestal and never really say what it is, but spend a lot of time arguing about what it isn't. I'm no longer posting here. Adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorinryu Sensei Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 A guy showed up to testing one time with a Isshinryu badge on his uniform since he studied that previously. The grandmaster decided it was an insult to him and ripped his uniform off his back then banished him forever from the school. I knew a guy years ago that used to love to walk into schools when he heard about instructors like yours and just HOPE they would try a stunt liek that. He laid out several instructors that I know of. He was a mean SOB. My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Mendiola Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 man,that's just crazy. I wouldn't want to show up with a Karate patch on my TKD Do Bak when your gonna test in front of the TKD master himself or even wearing it in the Dojang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 That history is bogus. I know because TKD can be traced back to shotokan. The very first kwan, Chung Do Kwan's founder was a student of Funakoshi during the Japanese Occupation. Also from speaking with people who have access to some of the kwan founders (those that are still alive) and students (who are now high ranking masters) of those founders and know them personally. And through one of those people I got access to a somewhat new text on the history of TKD, done by non-partial historians (non-MAists) that, unfortunately isn't availiable in English. Also, Korean MA throught history has been heavily influenced by the Chinese. Just read the Muyedobotongji, you'll see. One argument people also use is the statues at korean buddhist temples...well, all Buddhist temples have guardian statues in martial arts looking stances. The only Korean MA that seems to be unique to Korea is taekkyon, which many believe TKD came from...and it did not. I've seen taekkyon and it is quite different from TKD and influence is even denied by the taekkyon practicioners. Not to pick a fight...this is how it is... But yes, TKD has been influenced by all styles...mainly Japanese during their occupation... Korea was occupied by many in it's history all influencing TKD in little ways. But TKD itself was created by Koreans, but shunned away during occupations by others.... and after all those other styles came through, little things were taken... Thats why TKD is one of a kind...do you have a switch, front leg axe kick in many other styles? This history was told to us by our Master, Who Got It From His 1st Master Who Trained W/ Jhoon Rhee under General Choi Hung Hi... TKD mainly came from South Korea... <Victory Martial Arts>15 yrs old; 6 yrs in TKD1st Degree Black BeltJr. Olympian | Team USA Qualifier"Train Like A Champion, Fight Like A Warrior" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadCapoeirista Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Thats why TKD is one of a kind...do you have a switch, front leg axe kick in many other styles?The TKD of today is different from other styles and the TKD from the past (say pre-1970's) because of its evolutions from competition. Changes in footwork and kicking skills, moving away from fighting from deep front stances and back stances. Not to disrespect your master but his history is a bit innacurate. If you choose to believe him then do so but just know that there are those still alive from the time period that know and will share all that they know. I think everyone knows Choi, Hong Hi is a master at putting his own feet in his mouth. He once tried to take the credit for TKD being in the Olympics, among a lot of other things done to seperate the TKD community. Including things that caused the split up of his own organization upon his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 hmmm yes...i agree... he "modernized" TKD...but TKD wasn't full made up of japanese/chinese styles...they took little things of each... <Victory Martial Arts>15 yrs old; 6 yrs in TKD1st Degree Black BeltJr. Olympian | Team USA Qualifier"Train Like A Champion, Fight Like A Warrior" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John G Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Toast, Having faith in only what is taught, although admirable restricts us as martial artists to communicate and help each other develop. What is spoken/ written or what we see with our own eyes is not necessarily the truth, one has to seek as much information as possible from all sides before formulating in our own minds what our version of the truth is. To find the truth about anything one has to go back at least three stages and continually ask the question why. Here are a few links to help you on the way: http://www.beckmartialarts.com/ctkdfaq.html http://www.mooto.com/eng/webzine/news_view.asp?news_no=776# http://www.martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadCapoeirista Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 That last link there is the book I was talking about. Looks like someone posted the translation on the net. Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwonho Posted January 1, 2004 Author Share Posted January 1, 2004 No I would never do anything to upset the Grandmaster that owns my chain of schools. He's an 8th degree blackbelt and voted the worlds fastest kicker. I have developed too much respect for the master I train under and I have alot of respect for the Grandmaster. He's from Korea and I guess to him since he is in his house to train then you should leave your previous training at the door. I would not wear a bujinkan patch to the dojang out of respect not fear. To me I don't care if it is Karate since I like the people I train with so much. I repect the fact that people that cause problems at the dojang are banished since it's obviously not just about money to them. I have been short several times for testing and they allow me to pay when I have it. I also respect that I am not forced to test if I am not ready. I feel sort of lucky since in the dojang I am really given an inside view of asian society and the true meaning of the spirit of the arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John G Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 MadCapoeirista, I think only the first 5 chapters have been translated and placed on the web. It is predominately about the evolution of the WTF and KTA therefore is bias toward those federations. I have read General Choi's Memoirs which is obviously bias toward his federation (ITF), I guess somewhere between what they said, and what he said, is the truth. Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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