The Gracie

[Venezolano]

not necessarilly, but it is what it's supposed to, like a karateka is supposed to win by strikes and not by submissions, do you get my point?.

 

The fact that a person have to grapple it doesn't mean he can't strikem, you can strike from stand up, or from the ground doing GnP.

 

I have a different concept of "rounded" that the one you have.

 

For me, a well rounded fighter is somebody who knows how to fight on the ground, on his feet, avoid takedowns, etc..

 

BJJ was not created to fight in a RING, like you say, it was created to people can defend.themselves in brazilian streets, BJJ has self-defense, valetudo oriented part, and a sport oriented part, i guess you're taking only the last one that's wrong...

it's supposed to be absurd because in a way you are saying that a bjj guy can't win by striking and that's the point i am trying to make.

 

it seems to me that you are saying that in order for a bjj guy to win he HAS to grapple.

 

i mentioned 'rounded' because in my opinion, bjj is not rounded because it is primarily one on one.

 

in my opinon, karate is more rounded as an art because it is about self defence as opposed to beating ONE guy in a ring.

[WolverineGuy]

Let me put it to you this way: a karateka would not fight a BJJ student in a grappling tournament, nor would a BJJ student fight in a karate tournament, because its playing to the OTHER'S strengths. Neither tournament is well rounded. To say that a BJJ student isn't well rounded because he isn't going to win against a striker is absurd, because the karateka focuses more of his time on that aspect of fighting. The same holds true for the opposite. A no holds barred tournament, while still not a self defense situation due to the rules of the sport, is still a better playing field for who is more well rounded, because only the well rounded fighter is going to win.

[TJS]

Lets make this simple.

 

In a Karate trounament a BJJ practiicioner would be limited in what he could do because of the rules.

 

In a sport BJJ tournament a karateka would be severly limited in what he could do because of the rules.

 

The soulution is to set both parties under a set ofrules that dont unfairly restrict either's techniques.

 

It's really that simple. What some people forget is that BJJ is NOT NHB. there are rules in sport JJ just like sport karate. the diffrence is BJJ adptes better to NHB than karate does.

[WolverineGuy]

My point exactly.

[Venezolano]

Yeah, i agree

[Kensai]

But a good Pure Grappler is always going to have the up on a good Pure Striker.

 

The simple reason for that is that its easier to take someone to the floor and tap them than it is trying to stop them taking you to the floor.

 

The force of gravity works against us.

[WolverineGuy]

While I'm usually going to side with the grappler in that scenario, that is not always the case. I've seen quite a few instances where a striker simply pounded on the grappler. Filopovic of the PrideFC is a good example of a pure striker who is almost unbeatable (he did lose his last fight to a grappler). But he's knocked out SEVERAL. So the grappler does not ALWAYS have the advantage...its whoever has the best timing and strategy.

[Drunken Monkey]

which is exactly why i don't like it when people say there is a 'superior' style.

 

ultimately, it is all down to the person doing it, and how much luck he has when the time comes.

[WolverineGuy]

There are styles which will better prepare you for the situations than others though. It all depends on the completeness of the art. BJJ succeeded so much because, while there was a gaping hole in their striking game, the strikers were not used to fighting on the ground at all. This gives the BJJ student an advantage in two out of three phases of fighting: the clinch and the ground. Grappling specific arts such as BJJ aren't superior to, say, karate, but they did open the door for other arts to see what they were lacking.

[Drunken Monkey]

i am fully aware of that.

 

what initially bugged me about some of the posts here is that they seem to worship bjj as the absolute ultimate in self defence martial arts and don't seem to be able to see flaws.