Kirves Posted December 19, 2003 Author Posted December 19, 2003 Many times you don't want to hurt your opponent by breaking an arm, a leg, etc, so if the person is too rude, if you choke him out, you'll put him to sleep until police arrives, or whatever authority. Basically, I agree with you. But here I'm better off (legally) with a guy with a broken arm than a guy I choked out, when the police arrives. That's why I explicitly pointed out that anything done to the throat/neck area of the opponent is discouraged.what rules is the other guy using? No rules. He is a street thug. A narcotics user. A thief, robber or rapist. A mugger. Someone I have a reason to stop and cuff until the police arrive. Yet I have to go as far as possible along the rules the middle-aged Armani-suit bearing out-of-touch-with-reality guys in the ivory tower have written as "the law" in here. To make this more clear, these rules can be broken if I can prove it was necessary. This is easy if the guy wields a weapon, or if there's more than one guy. But the most common situation in my job is to apprehend one single guy, who usually is unarmed, and usually drunk or on drugs. Problem is I work in an environment, where there are dozens or hundreds of witnesses at any one time. Also, it is a very high probability that what happens ends up on security video tape. So I must go by the rules as far as possible. Of course many arts help, but now I'm looking for "the optimal" one, and that's where I need "second opinions". Aikido is theoretically good, but 1. takes too long to become a high percentage reliable tool, and 2. I don't trust it's common training methods to adequately prepare me for many common habitual street attacks.
Treebranch Posted December 19, 2003 Posted December 19, 2003 A good Jujutsu. You have the option of being brutal or not. Controlling is a big factor of Jujutsu and assuming the one on one is just silly. Taking someone down and keeping an up right postion whether you standing or on one knee is key. You need to be able to look around to see what's going on at all times. You said to pick an MA that doesn't take 10 years to learn to be effective. If think you could be effective with Budo Taijutsu in 5 years depending on the training methods used. It's all about attacking the balance. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Kirves Posted December 19, 2003 Author Posted December 19, 2003 I don't assume a single attacker but it happens to be the norm (hmm... let's say 10 such attacks a week and one unordinary a month involving either a weapon or multiples, something like that), also I very often have collegues rushing to assist. Also, most occasions happen after a moment of video surveillance which means, if there are more than one target persons, more than one of us are going right from the go. Also, I am not unarmed, I carry a baton and pepper spray, wear a lightweight kevlar-vest, safety boots and cutproof gloves. But I cannot use the baton or the spray unless in a dangerous situation (against a weapon or multiple opponents). So, when I face the most common situation - one target - I am basically unarmed and have to abide the rules. When I face more than one opponent or an armed one, I can use my weaponry and I know there were more than one of us alarmed to the scene from the get-go.
G95champ Posted December 19, 2003 Posted December 19, 2003 based on your situation I would say Mace or Pepper Spray. LOL. MT may be better because their low kicks work more like sweeps on a person who don't know there comming. Problem with judo and bjj is you do have cokes and joint locks and you don't want. Then to be good at judo and bjj for that matter its going to take some time. MT is a strikning art you can learn quick at least the basic idea of kicking and striking, Its up front, no hidden junk in kata's. I don't know much about Kava Magra (sp) but it may be the answere. Quick stricks and power takedowns. Sounds like the art you really need is Akkido but it will take time. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
Kirves Posted December 19, 2003 Author Posted December 19, 2003 Both MT and KM have the problem of looking like "he kicked and punched the guy" and that is what I must avoid at all costs when the witnesses are interviewed. I've seen a lot of KM and it is all "hit, hit, hit, and hit some more!"
crouton Posted December 19, 2003 Posted December 19, 2003 kirves, im just curious as to what you do? sorry if you already mentioned it, i must have missed it. Vee Arnis Jitsu - http://www.veearnisjitsu.comThe Defense Institute - http://www.defenseinstitute.comVeeArnisJitsu Group- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VeeArnisJitsu
Drunken Monkey Posted December 20, 2003 Posted December 20, 2003 hmmm, how about (surprise surprise) wing chun? after all, most of time, we train to instinctively get the other guy's arms out of the way and under control. the only difference is that you train to then lock down as opposed to knock down. (i.e intercept hit with tan sau, instead of hitting, feed other arm through to lock at shoulder, step on back of knee to take down to floor) we had a joint lock (chin na) session a couple of weeks ago at my kung fu class and basically i just used elbow positions to prevent myself being locked whilst allowing me to shift him into a better position for me to lock them. but then i'm sure the same could be applied to any art. after all, isn't the first stage of a confrontion interception? what happens after you meet hands is what we are talking about here right? maybe i'm wrong but i always assumed that most styles have joint locks and take downs and controls as part of the system that you can use after the interception. anyway, my police inspector friend in the hk police swears by his wing chun and i think the police in taiwan have wing chun as part of their self defence training as well. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Kirves Posted December 20, 2003 Author Posted December 20, 2003 kirves, im just curious as to what you do? Security. My previous martial training is mostly from standup styles and I find myself constantly in trouble as I'm not allowed to hit my customers and I'm not that comfortable at too close grappling ranges. There have already been two complaints filed about my actions by eyewitnesses who thought I handled a customer too roughly (shinkicked a customer's thigh to get him down, and punched one in the ribs). So I'm looking for "the optimal" tool for my job. At the moment I'm leaning a bit towards BJJ but still looking for second opinions.
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