Swords for Dueling

[Warp Spider]

I'm interested to hear your opinions on whether a European-style dueliing weapon (like a rapier or sabre) or a katana would be a better weapon for duelling. (and of course, why you think that would be a better choice)

 

This of course is considering modern swords, as opposed to the ancient variety.

[Bdaze]

well, in a formal duel a weapon is chosen before the actual fight. if the person specifies the type of weapon then you have no choice.

 

 

 

if for some reason the person mearly says "swords" then i'd imagine that means any sword you'd like.

 

generally however, duels do not include mixed weapons. if you battle with swords, you both use the same kind. etc.

 

so basically you're asking what the best kind of sword is. specifically the rapier or the katana.

 

i guess my preferance would have to go to the rapier. modern forging techniques mean neither is really that much better than the other technologically. i tend to favour speed over brute strength when it comes to blades because i single puncture wound that can be inflicted in a second can end a fight.

 

 

 

Although there really is nothing cooler than a Bowie duel (i.e. a duel with Bowie knives populair in the south around the time of the civil war)

[Warp Spider]

I suppose I should clarify - the duel conditions are essentially any melee weapon of choice - and theres no requirement that the weapons be of the same type. I'm inquring for a friend, but he has specified a preference for swords, so that's why I'm curious as to which would be better for an "open" duel like that.

[Treebranch]

Bdaze I'm surprise that you would say a katana is a brute weapon. Katana is extremely fast and light. You can stab with it just like a rapier. My friend has a rapier and I have a katana and the weight isn't that much different. Plus my other buddy has a really nice katana it is very light, scary light.

[tommarker]

with the right spirit and training, you should just be able to carve a sword out of an oar on the way to the duel and make due

[Hoju]

The best type of weapon depends on the duel that's being fought. If its for honour, the traditional & probably one of the best ways, is using a foil or epee, both fencing weapons. The sabre is actually designed as a mounted weapon (used when fighting on horseback).

 

Something like a katana blade is more a martial arts weapon, since you yourself have to be fast and agile apart from the weapon. A katana isn't the best parrying weapon and you're going to need to avoid counter attacks. Even a rapier needs something with it for defense (usually fought as a rapier/dagger combo).

 

Personally, having had my martial arts come from years of fencing training, I would be partial to the traditional fencing weapons as far and away the best for duels.

 

But, as was said, really one solid strike from any weapon, landed first, is going to be fine.

[Treebranch]

What are you talking about Samurai had duel. Does Musashi Miyamoto ring a bell. I don't think Musashi would have had any trouble against someone with a foil.

[KoreanTiger30]

MY FRIEND TOM STUDIED EUROPEAN MARTIAL ARTS AND INCLUDED RAPIER FIGHTING AND i HAVE SPARRED WITH HIM USING A GA GUM WHICH IS A KOREAN STLYE KATANA AND I FINE THAT IT IS DEF. A DIFFICULT TASK FOR BOTH OF US AND IT USUALLY GOES BACK AND FORTH WITH NO WINNERS. IT IS AN EXCELLENT LEARNING EXPERIENCE TO SE EHOW DIFFERENT BLADES ARE USED ADN COUNTERED. ONE COMMENT HE MADE OT ME IS HOW FAST THE KATANA AND THE POWER IS HAS BEHIND ITS CUTS..i THINK THE RAPIER IS A VERY FAST PIERCING OBSTACLE THAT YOU HAVE TO BE VERY COMFORTABLE IN YOUR BLOCKS TO DEFEND AGAINST IT.

[Tal]

It depends on the rules of the duel. Does it involve armor? If so, what type? Is the duel to first blood, or to the death?

 

For an unarmoured duel, a rapier is hard to beat. It is extremely fast and very accurate for thrusting. You can stab the heart or the throat without even thinking about it (almost). The disadvantage of the rapier is its damaging potential. Even if you stab your opponent, he'll most likely be able to continue fighting for at least a few seconds. You may ultimately kill him, but its difficult to end the duel with one stab (unless you're fighting to first blood), which is a big disadvantage. A rapier is also innefective against heavy armor (its too flexible).

 

A sabre is fairly fast (depending on its length and weight) and more decisive than a rapier when you make a hit. It has only one edge, which can be limiting, and is not as accurate in thrusting as a rapier. I think of a sabre is being more of a mounted weapon (as Hoju said) than a footman's or duelist's weapon.

 

With the katana, you need to specify whether its a traditionally made blade from Japanese ore, or a modern one made with high quality ore. Japanese iron is, well, crap, and that is a big disadvantage. The traditional Japanese forging methods somewhat make up for the poor iron, but a well forged European blade will be stronger. Anyway, if you parry properly and aren't fighting an opponent with armor the quality of the iron shouldn't matter too much. A katana is fast and manoueverable for its size, but nothing like a rapier. However, a good cut from a katana will be very decisive. A traditional katana would be hopeless against heavy armor, as the blade will just blunt. A modern katana would might fare a lot better, I don't know.

 

There are some other swords you may want to consider - European broadswords especially. A well forged broadsword is an awesome weapon. Better than a traditional katana in most situations IMO. The double edge is quite an advantage, but a broadsword doesn't have quite the cutting ability or manoeverability of a katana. You can increase the cutting ability by having the centre of mass further forward, but this will be at the expense of manoeverability. For dueling, manoueverabilty is more important IMO. A broadsword will still make very deep wounds against an unarmoured opponent. A broadsword is also fairly effective against armor.

 

I would say, for an unormoured or lightly armored duel, you can't beat a rapier + dagger combo. Especially if you have one of those nifty parrying daggers with the big quillons and blade-breaking mechanism. This will give you lots of speed, and if you fail to parry you're opponents attack with your rapier, you can catch it with the dagger and break his sword.

 

If you're wearing some decent armor (like chainmail), I'd say a broadsword. Its durable, but still fairly fast and manoeverable.

 

Against heavy (plate) armor, forget the swords and get a warhammer or something.

 

At the end of the day, its the duelist who will make the difference, not the weapon. In some cases when both duelists are very evenly matched, the weapon might make the difference, but most of the time a good duelist will defeat a poor duelist regardless of the weapon he uses (within reason of course, someone armed with a knife will not defeat someone armed with a good sword).