Wing Chun in the Ring

[pvwingchun]

These are the kind of issues I was hoping to bring up.

 

Look at it this way, the ring isn't a self defense situation the street obviously is. Can you use those techniques at a lesser level and still be effective or does the effectiveness lessen. I think people are trying to answer it. I can't see "watering down" my Wing Chun for use in the ring. I train to end a confrontation as quickly as possible and those techniques aren't going to be the same as those used in the ring, but can I use them in some modified fashion and still maintain principle. I don't believe it has anything to do with a lack of adaptibility or self control. I believe in taking the confrontation one step further than my opponent. I have to utilize great self control and be highly adaptable to be one step ahead of my opponent.

 

Let's put it this way, if you throw a punch I am going to disable you in some manner (break it if possible) so you can't throw another. I can't do this in the ring. This is in my opinion staying one step ahead of the opponent. In other words yes if rules are applied how does it work?

 

A drunk buddy is another situation.

In a ring, your opponent is not your enemy. Most likely, you know the guy, you've met him a few times, had drinks after shows, etc. You have to have the self-control to limit the techniques you would use on your opponent, and exploit the holes in his game with the tools you have left.

Just a question isn't this more like sparring than a fight?

 

Do we lessen the art by putting it in the ring?[

[pvwingchun]

These are the kind of issues I was hoping to bring up.

 

Look at it this way, the ring isn't a self defense situation the street obviously is. Can you use those techniques at a lesser level and still be effective or does the effectiveness lessen. I think people are trying to answer it. I can't see "watering down" my Wing Chun for use in the ring. I train to end a confrontation as quickly as possible and those techniques aren't going to be the same as those used in the ring, but can I use them in some modified fashion and still maintain principle. I don't believe it has anything to do with a lack of adaptibility or self control. I believe in taking the confrontation one step further than my opponent. I have to utilize great self control and be highly adaptable to be one step ahead of my opponent.

 

Let's put it this way, if you throw a punch I am going to disable you in some manner (break it if possible) so you can't throw another. I can't do this in the ring. This is in my opinion staying one step ahead of the opponent. In other words yes if rules are applied how does it work?

 

A drunk buddy is another situation.

In a ring, your opponent is not your enemy. Most likely, you know the guy, you've met him a few times, had drinks after shows, etc. You have to have the self-control to limit the techniques you would use on your opponent, and exploit the holes in his game with the tools you have left.

Just a question isn't this more like sparring than a fight?

 

Do we lessen the art by putting it in the ring?[

[1ONEfighting]

"Just a question isn't this more like sparring than a fight?"

 

Exactly. Some of the best people I know I met through the ring. It's a sport. Not life or death. When I fight on the street I have an entirely different temperament and arsenal than when I fight in the ring.

 

I don't view sport fighting as "watering down" my art. It is a much tougher test of skill to have these limitations placed upon you, and If you can make it work, it sharpens your strategy building ability, which is very necessary should a life or death situation arise.

 

It builds a core set of techniques that you KNOW you can apply under pressure, techniques that will not fail you should the need arise.

 

Why CAN'T Wing Chun adapt to the ring? All it takes is willingness and an open mind.

[pvwingchun]

I never said you couldn't adapt it to the ring. If it is something you desire then do it. But can you do it without taking the essence of any fighting art away?

When I fight on the street I have an entirely different temperament and arsenal than when I fight in the ring.

So wouldn't you consider that a watering down of what you do? Are you using the same techniques and strategies? If not then why not use those techniques and strategies in the ring? This is the crux of my question about WingChun?

 

I believe this is a personal issue and I know the answer for myself.

 

I believe that taking away the techniques and principles that are Wing Chun and imposing rules, as was mentioned, takes away the essence of Wing Chun. You can still use it but it isn't really Wing chun.

 

I would like to hear more opinions and see what others think. Please feel free to include any art you are involved in that is primarily used for self defense.

[1ONEfighting]

I never said you couldn't adapt it to the ring. If it is something you desire then do it. But can you do it without taking the essence of any fighting art away? .

 

What I meant was there is no reason WC could not adapt to the ring, apart from the objections of the individual fighter.

So wouldn't you consider that a watering down of what you do? Are you using the same techniques and strategies? If not then why not use those techniques and strategies in the ring? This is the crux of my question about WingChun?.

 

I use completely different strategy every fight. No two fights are the same. Many of my self defense strategies translate to the ring, ALL of my ring strategies translate to the street. I have much more freedom and options on the street, which actually makes it somewhat easier.

 

When I started competing in MMA, headbutts were my favorite technique. They're banned in the ring now, but it doesn't mean I've forgotten about them. I've merely forgotten my name after using them.

I believe that taking away the techniques and principles that are Wing Chun and imposing rules, as was mentioned, takes away the essence of Wing Chun. You can still use it but it isn't really Wing chun.

 

Why not? Just consider ring fighting a training device, not the end goal of your martial art. What IS the essence of Wing Chun? How is it diminished by rules, when rules are already placed upon it by the law?

 

 

I would like to hear more opinions and see what others think. Please feel free to include any art you are involved in that is primarily used for self defense.

 

Is this a subtle way of telling me to shut up?

[pvwingchun]

Is this a subtle way of telling me to shut up?

No, not at all. Keep it up.

[shotokanwarrior]

if your goal is to only fight in the ring and train for it then yes you are taking the essence of the art away.

[1ONEfighting]

if your goal is to only fight in the ring and train for it then yes you are taking the essence of the art away.

 

The essence of your art is whatever you want it to be. Some people will never fight in their lives, and practice martial arts just for the exercise and enjoyment it brings.

 

Some apply that knowledge to the ring, where they can use their art without fearing for their lives or legal repercussions of using their art on the street.

 

Some feel anything less than pure self defense is beneath them, and dream of the day they FINALLY get mugged.

 

You look at one martial arts class, regardless of style, and you will find a bunch of people who love their art for very different reasons. The essence of the art lies in the individual. None of the approaches are wrong, per se, just different interpretations of the same inkblot.

[Drunken Monkey]

how do you win in a ring?

 

knock the other out.

 

how do you win on the street?

 

knock the other guy out.

 

tell me how the ring prevents you from using wing chun to acheive your goal?

 

what do you lose?

 

elbows, kicks to knees/shin-scrapes/maybe biu gee head targets.

 

does that really change the way you do things that much?

 

they are, in my opinion, just the ways to hit.

 

all of the ways to enter, control, trap, pin, unbalance are still available to you.

 

i see no reason why limiting the ways you can hit prevents you from doing the 'basics'.

 

a historical point for you to consider.

 

biu gee

 

(that contains the moves people always go on about...well contains almost all of them...)

 

was often not taught to the majority of students and yet these guys were still expected to win fights.

[jeffrogers]

Good thread!