Wing chun

[pvwingchun]

Very interesting I have only heard a few people use the term percieved or false center. What you present to them is what looks like the center but what is really happening is you have theirs and they think they have yours. I wasn't sure what you menat or where you were going, you never know with a keyboard between you. You are obviously learning or have discovered something on your own that isn't normally taught, at least in my experience.

[Drunken Monkey]

What you present to them is what looks like the center but what is really happening is you have theirs and they think they have yours

 

almost.

 

but like i said, i've only ever done this in poon sau.

 

you kinda need both hands in contact to get it 'structurally' right.

 

the odd thing is, you have to make your structure 'bad' for a moment as you move into the new position when structure is correct again (i.e shift hips, step).

 

and the false centre only exists as you are moving to your new position.

 

as you step, the idea is that you partner still only feels forward pressure on him when in fact you are applying pressure from an angle.

 

during the process you tend to have to sort of cross your hands which is why i mentioned bil gee back there....

 

the fact that you've changed angles means that when you apply 'correct' pressure, you instantly have control of his centre and he has to play catch-up.

 

in simple layman, terms, you are 'faking' what he feels....

 

please note, this doesn't mean that you have in anyway compromised your defensive structure.

 

you shift into a weaker position but the point is, according to what he feels, nothing has changed.

 

and the weaker position isn't really weak at all.

 

elbows still cover, you are still in correct stance etc etc.

 

if you time your step and hand movement right, you can step side to side and your partner will not know (feel) you have moved.

 

my sifu showed us these bits when explaining the

 

receive what comes

 

and

 

borrow energy

 

and

 

two hands one mind

 

if you feel like he is concerntrating too much on the centre,

 

then give it to him.

 

then snatch it away.

 

y'know, bait, then borrow then confuse.

 

hmm, maybe it really is just a chi sau thing?

[pvwingchun]

but like i said, i've only ever done this in poon sau.

 

you kinda need both hands in contact to get it 'structurally' right.

 

the odd thing is, you have to make your structure 'bad' for a moment as you move into the new position when structure is correct again (i.e shift hips, step).

 

As I said it is all in the feet. You don't have to compromise anything or shift into a weaker position even for a split second as you move to a new postion. You can present a false center to your opponent either in or out of contact. It is hard to explain and very hard to do using cutting angle footwork that is why you have to switch to moving on a circle around your opponent.

 

and the false centre only exists as you are moving to your new position.

 

as you step, the idea is that you partner still only feels forward pressure on him when in fact you are applying pressure from an angle.

 

You can maintain this false center at all times. It has to do with changing the angle of the triangle you are working with or elongating it.

 

 

 

the fact that you've changed angles means that when you apply 'correct' pressure, you instantly have control of his centre and he has to play catch-up.

 

Again you can do this at all times not just moving and making him catch up.

[Drunken Monkey]

well, i guess that just shows that i have much to learn.

 

you might've picked up that i'm not too confident in it for 'actual use'.

 

it kinda makes me have to think and that kinda puts me off sometimes.

 

and finally, well, when you have his centre, you can 'end' that sticking situation by just attacking.

 

unless of course you're practicing your control of the centre.

 

i think i do things the way i described for a reason.

 

i guess part of it is down to my lack of confidence in it.

 

i'm not a big person.

 

i'm 5'5'' and have short arms and legs.

 

and i only weigh 55/56kgs.

 

if i get it wrong i usually have to work extra hard to recover,

 

even if i keep stance.....

 

or um, guess i just need to do more work!

[pvwingchun]

I personally think you have plenty of confidence from what you speak about and the knowledge you seem to possess.

 

This is a concept very radical to many and many will decry it as non-WC since it doesn't make absolute use of cutting angle footwork but it is there in the system (weapons) and most of all it doesn't break principle. It is something I have only recently adopted for empty hand work and began to use after I began training with someone else. Trust me it makes much more sense especially for someone your size. It allows you to get to the outside and flank your opponent totally taking his balance and center.

[Drunken Monkey]

not sure what you mean by cutting angle footwork...

 

but i'm flattered by your comments.

 

i really am not that good.

 

and i am also very much out of touch.

 

it has now been just over a year since i last had a proper wing chun class.

 

recently i've made a deliberate slow going through everything i know from day one stuff.

 

i now have two very nice circles on my lawn where there is no grass......

 

and talking to two others here about them starting wing chun has kinda given me the drive to do the old pak sau/punch variations.

 

since then i've been going through all of the old drills.

 

i dread going back to hk this christmas.......

[pvwingchun]

The "traditional" triangular footwork.

 

You may not consider yourself very good but you are knowledgeable in the art.

 

It sounds as if you are now on a path of self discovery which is what WC should be about after a certain length of time in the art. Once you have the techniques down it is up to you to adapth them and apply the principles in a manner that works for you.

[Drunken Monkey]

...not really 'self discovery'.

 

i'm lucky to have friends who have martial arts background in different styles.

 

it gives me the opportunity to actually train against real karate, kick-boxing, boxing and tkd

 

as opposed to doing drills against 'approximations' of what those guys might do.