cross Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 (edited) Also.. I agree that without going to the ground there is no ground fight, but going to the ground on prupose is NOT a viable tactic in a life-or-death situation. It wasnt my intention to put forward the message that people should go to the ground on purpose... this is just a list of training i do to prepare if the situation ever occured. This is a superior position in sport grappling but not for street groundfighting. Remember the goal is to get back to your feet as quickly as possible but IF you insist on using a mount, go for a head mount. Wouldn't it be easier to get back up if you were ontop?? e.g. mount. vital targets such as the eyes, throat, groin with simple gouges, grabs, and strikes. Don't over-emphasize punches to the head as they can lead to broken hands and ultimately cost you a life out on the street. I should have been a little clearer.. i just summerised by saying "you strike your opponent with punches/forearms/elbows etc until you can escape or they are knocked out/dazzed." The goal is to get back to your feet as quickly as possible not beat the attacker into submission. What if they get back up after you do?? if you dont do any serious damage to them while they are on the ground then you may not get another chance to be in a domient position. Thanks again for your post.. and no offense was taken. you make some very good points.. I hope you dont take offense to my post either. I also had a look at your site Steve, Nice work.. look like you have more than a little bit of experiance Edited December 8, 2003 by cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 The problem with groundfighting in a real situation is usually the guy you fighting will have a couple of his buddies.so the second you end up on the ground their friends will start stompin on your head or punching you in the ribs.trust me,ive seen it happen. So what happens if you are taken to the ground by this guy?? dont you think fighting back in some of the ways i surgested would help you get to your feet and then face his "friends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szorn Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 "The key is to ask yourself are the tactics that I am teaching as "reality-based" as equally effective for average women, men, and elderly individuals as they are for male athletes?" If you are a male athlete, why should you try to fight like an old woman? Use what the good Lord gave you. Mike Tyson, one tougher than tough male athlete, broke his hand while trying to punch during a street fight. The fact is that when teaching personal protection you should teach strategies and tactics that are easily applicable by everyone while still being effective. Not to mention, that punching is a learned skill that requires lots of training as well as protective equipment to protect the hands. Average people who want to protect themselves don't have hours to spend in a gym learning to punch or box. I should also point out, that the human skull contains the hardest bones in the body and the hands contain the softest. If we do the math, we see that the good lord didn't give us hands to punch to the head with. Ask youself this, which requires more training, more skill, and more energy to execute- a powerful punch or a quick finger gouge to the eye? Steve Personal Safety Unlimitedhttp://www.geocities.com/combatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szorn Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Also.. It wasnt my intention to put forward the message that people should go to the ground on purpose... this is just a list of training i do to prepare if the situation ever occured. ok, thanks for the clarification. I apologize, it just seemed like you were saying it was a good idea to go to the ground. A good way to train that is to let your partner take you down during a mock chaotic scuffle. That way we develop the positive habit of only going to the ground when we are forced there. Wouldn't it be easier to get back up if you were ontop?? e.g. mount.If we have the ability to reposition ourselves into the mount, we could easily bypass the mount and stand up. I have seen this hundreds of times by groundfighters who claim to teach "reality"- they will fight to get to the mount, when they should be fighting to get to their feet. As I mentioned, IF we feel the need to use a mount the "head mount" is better and it allows for an easier escape. I should have been a little clearer.. i just summerised by saying "you strike your opponent with punches/forearms/elbows etc until you can escape or they are knocked out/dazzed." I might have just been reading things into this but it sounds more like a boxing match on the ground than a survival situation which is why I like to clarify which tactics and targets should be used. What if they get back up after you do?? if you dont do any serious damage to them while they are on the ground then you may not get another chance to be in a domient position. I agree that we must do some serious damage to prevent them from doing us further harm, which is why I am a fan of the simple but effect tactics and targets. I just don't think our primary goal should be to continue our counter-assault until they give up or pass out , as this takes up valuable time, which may give the attacker a chance to turn the tables on us or for someone to come along and help the attacker because they think we are the bad guy. Also, from a legal standpoint we are only allowed to do what is necessary to survive and escape the altercation, anything else might place us in jeopardy. However, I am all for doing whatever is needed to survive, and I do mean "whatever".Thanks again for your post.. and no offense was taken. you make some very good points.. I hope you dont take offense to my post either. I also had a look at your site Steve, Nice work.. look like you have more than a little bit of experiance No offense taken either. Thank you for the compliment, it's greatly appreciated. Steve Personal Safety Unlimitedhttp://www.geocities.com/combatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Scholar Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 anti grappling should be a part of anyone's curriculum. like everyone said it's easier said than done. But if you are taken to the ground, be prepared for that situation.... train the way you fight. you scythe with it!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I'll add my 2 cents: Firstly, there is no such thing as "anti-grappling". You can NOT strike your way out of a grappling situation. You have to know how to grapple. Thinking otherwise will see you getting very hurt against someone who knows how to grapple. Secondly, what is a "head mount"? Could you please describe it. Thirdly, strikes are a good idea on the ground, although we teach not to punch to the head when we've got mount, but to use slaps or elbows to make the opponent turn over and give his back. However, since most people aren't going to be getting into fights every night of the week, if the worst that happens to you in a fight is hurting your hand from punching the guy then you're doing okay. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Scholar Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 by anti grappling i mean trying to prevent a take down.. not necessarily just striking. Could also be evasive tactics. .i'm not disputing the necessity of learning how to grapple or lock.. just saying that preventing from being taken down should be trained. .and I mean trained hard and well. you scythe with it!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Lazy Scholar, I agree. Too many people and too many arts ignore this aspect of fighting. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Lazy Scholar, I agree. Too many people and too many arts ignore this aspect of fighting. thats because if anyone ever shot for a takedown they would knee them in the HEAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Or even better, just drop into horse stance and elbow them in the back of the head! BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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