Seienchin

[elyayo82]

Hi, Im looking for a video of "Saienchin".

 

I hope someboby give me a web page where I could download that video.

 

Thanks...

[stl_karateka]

Here is a clip of someone doing Seiunchin at the Gator Nationals. If you are going to watch it more than once download it so you don't kill the server bandwidth---plus this site switches videos frequently and this one is near the bottom of the list so it may not be there in a week:

 

http://www.sportmartialarts.com/Videos/GatorNatls03_02_CostalesNicoleTradForm.mpg

 

Here is the isshinRyu version (still pics)

 

http://www.isshinryu.com/seiuchin1.htm

 

Hope this helps!

 

Kita

[Neil]

Awful. See this is the krap being taught throughout the world. She is totally uncoordinated, she is literally wobbling in her over stretched stances, making all these hand moves that aren't even needed, seperating the 3 bows of her body, and generally is just a s*** kata. There are moves she was doing that aren't even in the kata! Too stiff and too strong.

 

The still pics is awful. I am not familiar with the isshinRyu version, but what relates to any kata is that you are always pushing your body into the floor, via bending the knees. Yamaguchi Gogen always said karate comes from below the knees.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Totally horrible. She has no friggin' clue about what she's doing in that kata. Posing, that's all - it's not a kata.

 

Try this: Kunjo Miyage, 7. dan, Shito-Ryu http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/miyake.wmv

 

Or this: Meitatsu Yagi, 10. dan, Goju-Ryu http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/yagi_kata.wmv

 

The versions are a bit different, but still something that this little girl from Gator Nationals will never reach - at least if she keeps the theatrical way she's having now.

[stl_karateka]

Seriously, I think you guys have nothing better to do than to slam other peoples stuff.

 

Personally I dont know the girl or the guy from a hole in the wall so this isn't me taking it personally....but I am personally sick of people harshly slamming everything they see as if it builds you up or makes you better.

 

Basically what I'm saying is you can state your opinion without ripping someone to shreds.

 

For the record, Niel I agree with what you said about the still pics.... he does not seem 'grounded' but for me the pics served their purpose which was strictly to reference the moves.

 

As for the girl --- she is performing the kata. There is a difference there. Things like extra hand movement etc is allowed. What I don't like is she has a loose stance and 'rollercoasters' as she transitions through the moves.

 

Unlike some people - I wont put a cap on anyones potential.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Seriously, I think you guys have nothing better to do than to slam other peoples stuff.

 

Nice idea. But when someone performs something, he or she opens it for critic. As do we when writing. Thank you for your critic.

Personally I dont know the girl or the guy from a hole in the wall so this isn't me taking it personally....but I am personally sick of people harshly slamming everything they see as if it builds you up or makes you better.

 

Again: When you publish something, you open it for critic. That's what those people did. Don't get sick from it, live with it. And drop the hypocrisy - you're slamming us now.

Basically what I'm saying is you can state your opinion without ripping someone to shreds.

 

Yes. Possibly you can. However, straight talk usually gets the point. False politeness is for hypocrites.

 

For the record, Niel I agree with what you said about the still pics.... he does not seem 'grounded' but for me the pics served their purpose which was strictly to reference the moves.

As for the girl --- she is performing the kata. There is a difference there. Things like extra hand movement etc is allowed.

 

It is? OK...why does she even claim the kata to be Seienchin when she has altered it into a nearly unrecognizable state? And in which competition those "extra hand movements" are allowed? In most competitions she would get no points - due to performing a wrong kata. Kata competitions are for performing kata as well as possible. They are no free routines. They are pretty strictly defined.

What I don't like is she has a loose stance and 'rollercoasters' as she transitions through the moves.

 

What I don't like is that she has altered the kata into a state that it can barely be recognized and obviously has no friggin' idea about what she's doing in kata - i.e. she doesn't know Seienchin's traditional bunkai. Bunkai should be visible in kata. Her sloppy movement and wobbly stances are only an icing on the cake.

Unlike some people - I wont put a cap on anyones potential.

 

And that makes you better than us because...?

[stl_karateka]

Jussi -

 

I'm going to address these one last time here cause it's otherwise it'll turn into a dialouge between the two of us and I doubt other people care. Feel free to PM me to carry on this discuss if you like.

Seriously, I think you guys have nothing better to do than to slam other peoples stuff.

 

Nice idea. But when someone performs something, he or she opens it for critic. As do we when writing. Thank you for your critic.

 

Good point. And yes I agree....anyone who puts something out in the open is subject to criticism. CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I mean otherwise what is the point? I look at it this way....if that girl was to read your comments as they stand would she benefit from them? Would they make her any better? Would they make her want to improve? BTW you are welcome for the criticism

Personally I dont know the girl or the guy from a hole in the wall so this isn't me taking it personally....but I am personally sick of people harshly slamming everything they see as if it builds you up or makes you better.

 

Again: When you publish something, you open it for critic. That's what those people did. Don't get sick from it, live with it. And drop the hypocrisy - you're slamming us now.

 

No I'm not slamming you. Sorry you feel that way. I will apoligize for the last line --- I can not say with 100% certainty that you slam people to make yourself feel better because I don't know you....but I do know enough people in the karate world that do just that. There seems to be a huge ego attached to MA and that is what I am sick of.

Basically what I'm saying is you can state your opinion without ripping someone to shreds.

 

Yes. Possibly you can. However, straight talk usually gets the point. False politeness is for hypocrites.

 

Its not false politeness, its tact. There is a difference.

Totally horrible. She has no friggin' clue about what she's doing in that kata

Above quote is what I call ripping to shreds.

As for the girl --- she is performing the kata. There is a difference there. Things like extra hand movement etc is allowed.

 

It is? OK...why does she even claim the kata to be Seienchin when she has altered it into a nearly unrecognizable state? And in which competition those "extra hand movements" are allowed? In most competitions she would get no points - due to performing a wrong kata. Kata competitions are for performing kata as well as possible. They are no free routines. They are pretty strictly defined.

 

Do you comepete in strict traditional circuits? Like AAU --- that is the only one I can think of right now. If so then you are right....absolutely NO changes. However the predominate circuits: NASKA, WSKF, NBL allow moderations..even in traditional division. The rules for traditional say something along the lines of "the moves must be traditional and capture the essence of the style...blah z blah" IE no running, flipping, machine gun kicks etc. So "traditional" in the environment where she was competing, is Open with restrictions....does that make sense?

What I don't like is she has a loose stance and 'rollercoasters' as she transitions through the moves.

 

What I don't like is that she has altered the kata into a state that it can barely be recognized and obviously has no friggin' idea about what she's doing in kata - i.e. she doesn't know Seienchin's traditional bunkai. Bunkai should be visible in kata. Her sloppy movement and wobbly stances are only an icing on the cake.

 

I still don't see how you can say she doesn't know Seiunchin's bunkai. How about she doesn't DISPLAY the bunkai. And there are different levels of Bunkai (I think 4...and I forget the names) --- but they are NOT all visible in the kata.

Unlike some people - I wont put a cap on anyones potential.

 

And that makes you better than us because...?

 

I don't write people off. I could be totally off base here (but that's a risk you take in written communication) ---- I get the impression that if this girl walked in your dojo you would laugh her out. I hope I am wrong.

 

 

Bottom line: this thread was supposed to be about someone requesting kata videos. A few of you felt the need to turn it into a critque. That's your business...you've made some good points and there are no hard feelings at my end. Like I said earlier it just rubs me the wrong way. If you do want to continue this discussion feel free to PM me.

 

Elyayo82 - I hope you found what you were looking for

[Goju1]

stl-karateka:

 

I think the point is that if someone is asking for a clip of a particular kata, it does no good to have them see essentially the wrong kata. Not being critical of you at all, you were just passing on some info, but that is barely even capable of being called Seienchin. And I've never heard of being able to change the hand movements, you could get killed for doing that where I come from

 

Nothing personal, thats just horrible karate

[Bl4cKtH0rN]

Heeheheh , felt feather of that personal one, hehhehe, the kata is all slow, and forced, the feelings are of hate, the personnel thinks ta practicing karate, heheh, sinister was the hour in that the girl used a very long Kiai, that and waste of energy... I will be quiet ....

[stl_karateka]

Goju1 - you're right...no point handing out the wrong kata....I will admit this....I don't know HOW much she changed it as it is all together different from the I-Ryu Seiunchin I've learned....but I recognized the pattern enough to know it is Seiunchin.

 

As far as Xtra hand movements --- that's STRICTLY for the tournaments. Personally I don't do it...I choose to pick a traditional kata that has enough 'flare' to survive on its own (kusanku, gojushiho, and unsu) --- I will do a little tournament trick like hold the kick out for an extra second --- it shows judges balance and control...whereas in real life I'd snap that foot back in quicker than I snapped it out there!

 

Neil:

I'm 16 and have been doing Karate for a year and could completely destroy him

There is so much wrong with that picture! Granted I haven't watched the videos yet but you have been training for a year and you are ripping apart a ju-dan?!?!

 

And the ahem....colorful language....I can't take you seriously.

 

There were some good points made but I'm moving on....this is getting ka-razy.