delta1 Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I was working on Chon Ji today, and trying to get a handle on some of the applications. When you start doing sword blocks (vertical outward block), I see them working best for an attack comeing at you from an oblique more than from 90'. First off, as you turn and cat and put up your wall block, the lower hand doesn't have much travel, and so would not clear much. More importantly, as you step into a back stance and deliver a sword block if it takes his punch at an angle it deflects with the back of the forearm, as it should. But for a punch comeing at you from 90' the block connects with the radial side of the forearm, risking injury to you. Of course, you could allways torque the arm at the point of contact so your palm faces inward, but this is not how I generally see the block done in this form. How do you guys do it? How do you see it applied? Freedom isn't free!
John G Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 We execute that block exactly the way you described it, primarily to divert a punch coming in at 90 degrees, have you read this article? http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=334 Makes you think… Excellent observation delta1 Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
delta1 Posted November 30, 2003 Author Posted November 30, 2003 John G, thanks. That was a very interesting article, and a lot of good info. I always blamed hours of practicing blocks in a horse stance for those anoying bad habits I had (and still have to) overcome. Practicing from a horse, everything tends to go across your body on a 9:00/3:00 axis. Then there is a tendency to continue that from a fighting stance, since that is how you've drilled it. But, as the article pointed out, those 90' blocks can be dangerouse to the blocker. There are other advantages to blocking with the 'double bone method' (that's a good term for it)- the article pointed out safety and anatomical strength, but also it provides more of an angle of disturbance and an another angle of deflection, and more torque at the end of the block. Thanks for the reply. Freedom isn't free!
Bretty101 Posted December 2, 2003 Posted December 2, 2003 Are you talking about which part of your forearm should connect against an attacker? Traditionally its the inner or outer forearm ("an" or "batak palmok", for chon-ji all the middle section blocks are inner forearm), either one bone or the other not both. You will bruise and 'injure' yourself at first but nothing serious. If you practice a lot with a partner you will condition your forearms and this will no longer hurt. Go along to your nearest shotokan club, It won't take you long to get used to it. Best thing to do is ask your instructor, we'll probably all say something different, but your instructor will have his own applications and can probably explain and demonstrate them far better then we could describe them on this forum. Bretty
delta1 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Posted December 2, 2003 Are you talking about which part of your forearm should connect against an attacker? Traditionally its the inner or outer forearm ("an" or "batak palmok", for chon-ji all the middle section blocks are inner forearm), either one bone or the other not both. You will bruise and 'injure' yourself at first but nothing serious. If you practice a lot with a partner you will condition your forearms and this will no longer hurt. Go along to your nearest shotokan club, It won't take you long to get used to it. Hard contact with the radial side of the arm can expose the radial nerve to dammage. You can deaden the nerve, but you can't condition it. I'm not sure I want to deaden nerves. Hard blocks with the arm twisted out so the radius is to the outside can also put a lot of strain on the elbow. At 50 you tend to notice things like that a lot quicker.Best thing to do is ask your instructor, we'll probably all say something different, but your instructor will have his own applications and can probably explain and demonstrate them far better then we could describe them on this forum. He's got about a thousand applications for everything! But he likes for us to work things out also, instead of just feeding us all the time. But you are right, I will run this all by him as soon as I'm ready. Any way, thanks for the info. Freedom isn't free!
John G Posted December 2, 2003 Posted December 2, 2003 Its no big secret that 95% of TKD has its roots in shotokan and it has been a learning experience to find the originating applications for the movements common to TKD and shotokan. Trying to find the origins of Tuls/Kata is at best confusing especially with fourth generation arts like TKD. Assuming that once upon a time a group of people in china developed a fighting system superior to that of their neighbours, which was then copied/modified by some group in Okinawa, then copied/modified by a group in Japan and then copied/modified by a group in Korea, one can see how movements could somehow loose their originating purpose. Then of course you have the deliberate inclusion of subtle mistakes in Tuls/Kata so that others who copy/modify a system also include the mistakes. This phenomenon has not only taken place in the past but is still alive and well today. The danger of this is that in 50 – 100 years from now people will look at what is recorded in print and multimedia and believe it to be true. The block in question (an-palmok) from Chon-Ji to divert a strike coming in at 90 degrees could have be been one of these movements subject to Chinese whispers or deliberate miss-information. Then again, it could just be an ineffectual technique for this type of strike. I could make up a few other application for this technique as performed in Chon-Ji but would be interested in finding out the thoughts of others with regard to its application. Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
Guy_Mendiola Posted December 2, 2003 Posted December 2, 2003 i was working on chon ji in tkd because it was froms and patterns week in tkd and also i think it's called tan gun.
John G Posted December 2, 2003 Posted December 2, 2003 Dan Gun / Tan Gun is the next one up from Chon-Ji (at least it is in ITF TKD) Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
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