SevenStar Posted December 9, 2003 Posted December 9, 2003 I don't doubt your experience but what you witnessed was a combination of martial art and sport. That said conditioning (which I believe is the tangent we got off on ) is important. But all the conditioning in the world isn't going to undo the off balancing or damage done by a barrage of strikes to vital areas that can be inflicted in a matter of seconds by a trained martial artist. That's the area I always find myself debating with TMA guys... When I was in TMA - years of karate, four years of longfist - we never practiced barrages of strikes to vital areas at full force. And, as we know, you fight how you train. I knee, elbow, thai kick, throw, etc. all the time at a high contact level. I KNOW I can do those things, and they are ingrained in me. Never once have I tried to phoenix eye anyone in the temple. Not only that, but I have no idea if I could actually pull it off, since it's not practiced at full speed against full resistance. Also, hitting such precise areas lends itself to taking much longer time to master, which was kind of the point of this thread - TMA takes longer to learn, in most cases. A guy with 3 months of training isn't going to be able to precisely hit all of these vital areas in a confrontation.
SevenStar Posted December 9, 2003 Posted December 9, 2003 TJS, this argument has been done to death on this forum. no sense arguing on this thread and closing it. especially before i find out the difference between a tiger claw and an eagle claw tiger claw is all 5 digits, spread apart. the hand is vertical and it used for raking, tearing, etc. With the eagle claw, the digits are close together and the hand is horizontal. it's used for throat strikes, grabbing, etc.
battousai16 Posted December 9, 2003 Posted December 9, 2003 ach; looks like hwa rang do calls our tiger claws eagle claws then. thank you "I hear you can kill 200 men and play a mean six string at the same time..."-Six String Samurai
pmh1nic Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 battousai16 We're not arguing, we're having a friendly discussion. Sevenstar There is a limit to the how realistic the average person can train. You can't very often practice contact strikes into a vunerable area, it's not good for business and most people have to go to their regular 9 to 5 job the following day. There is a trade-off. But when you add a sporting element (meaning prohibiting even the non-contact initiation of certain types of attacks) there is a added train-off. Couple that with the starting point and the ultimate object of wrestling or the feeling out process in a typical boxing match (I do enjoy the chess game of a good boxing match), wearing gloves, etc. they fall further away from the core of martial arts (learning how to react and survive a deadly confrontation). Again, I'm biased by my martial arts background. I started my formal martial arts training at 40. I'm 51 today (actually it's my birthday today). At 40 my focus wasn't sport or learning a lot of traditional techniques that didn't have a pretty direct self-defense application. At 40 and counting my options with respect to an endurance race and flexability were limited and getting more limited by the year. The only sensible option in my mind was learning a martial are that focused on get the job done and get it done quickly. If I was in my teens or twenties with the time, energy and flexability required to master Kung Fu I might have devoted myself to learning it. That wouldn't change my opinion that the most effective self-defense techniques are the ones that are the most direct and most quickly incorporated. "The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin
Icetuete Posted December 10, 2003 Author Posted December 10, 2003 If I was in my teens or twenties with the time, energy and flexability required to master Kung Fu I might have devoted myself to learning it. That wouldn't change my opinion that the most effective self-defense techniques are the ones that are the most direct and most quickly incorporated. yeah, i agree on your last statement, with quick attacks. but do you mean, if you were younger, u would learn an art (be it kung fu or whatever), that does not provide a self defense as good as your art, because u had more time to learn it? maybe i got this wrong. happy birthday, btw
TJS Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 TJS, this argument has been done to death on this forum. no sense arguing on this thread and closing it. especially before i find out the difference between a tiger claw and an eagle claw Im not trying to argue i was pointing out that you were wrong about that particular statment. it's not opinion it's fact...unless of course you disagree with the dictionary.
shotokanwarrior Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 UFC is a fight, both guys squared off and ready and it could last a while. Self defense is a totally different ball game. A mugger will not wait for big john , to get it on. Where Art ends, nature begins.
TJS Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 UFC is a fight, both guys squared off and ready and it could last a while. Self defense is a totally different ball game. A mugger will not wait for big john , to get it on. Yes I Agree, training for self defense shoulf be done from a position of disadvantage and is diffrent from fight training. But that's not what he said.
shotokanwarrior Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 Sorry but im off topic here. TJS does krav maga have rank or belts,what do you wear in class? Where Art ends, nature begins.
Icetuete Posted December 10, 2003 Author Posted December 10, 2003 this thread has gone off topic for quite a while now anyway, so dont mind it. as far is i'm concerned, there are no belts in krav maga and you wear either ordinary sports wear or t-shirts with the school-logo or the kravmaga logo on it. there are no traditional uniforms like the korean dobok or the japanese gi. some instructors might tend to do testings in krav and give away belts, though.
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