Sasori_Te Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 pmh1nic finally mentioned the core of the matter. If you talk about fighting, the first thing I think of is no rules what-so-ever. Bite, gouge, throat strikes, pick up a chair, stab, shoot. Whatever is necessary. Most of you guys are still talking about fighting in a ring of some type with rules. That's not how I read the initial question. The gung fu masters were totally out of their element in a Thai fight. Fighting with unfamiliar rules. I'm also assuming that they weren't trying to kill one another. If not, then you're trying to compare apples and oranges equally and you can't do that. Every style has strengths and weaknesses just as every person has the same. If you like the style you do and can make it work for you then run with it. Enjoy. There's never going to be a style that you can say with authority is 100% effective. As long as people are people any fighter is capable of beating any other fighter on a given day. A block is a strike is a lock is a throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 "Depends on the fight, I have seen alot end after a few blows like you said and i have seen other go on for quite a while until one or both parties are exausted." You didn't define "quite a while" but I would question the skill of the parties if in a one on one, I'm talking one on one NHB that includes everything (eye gouge, strikes to the throat, bitting, etc.) that last more than a minute. I've seen several 1 on 1 fights that lasted more than a minute, some involving chairs and sticks. As for the skill of the fighters, it doesn't matter. Most of the people you encounter in a fight/ watch fight on the street won't be trained. You don't have to be trained to have a beef with someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 pmh1nic finally mentioned the core of the matter. If you talk about fighting, the first thing I think of is no rules what-so-ever. Bite, gouge, throat strikes, pick up a chair, stab, shoot. Whatever is necessary. Most of you guys are still talking about fighting in a ring of some type with rules. That's not how I read the initial question. The gung fu masters were totally out of their element in a Thai fight. Fighting with unfamiliar rules. I'm also assuming that they weren't trying to kill one another. If not, then you're trying to compare apples and oranges equally and you can't do that. Every style has strengths and weaknesses just as every person has the same. If you like the style you do and can make it work for you then run with it. Enjoy. There's never going to be a style that you can say with authority is 100% effective. As long as people are people any fighter is capable of beating any other fighter on a given day. Can kung fu masters punch? Can kung fu masters kick? Can they throw? If so, then they were NOT out of their element. How many people do you think they killed while training? My guess is zero. How many have they killed in real life? for most of them, my guess is zero. When you are in class training, do you eye gouge at full power? groin kick at full power? Probably not. The problem was not being out of their element. There were two problems: 1. they weren't training properly. 2. They didn't know how to remain in their element. Grapplers were able to take them down. On the ground, those guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it because they had no ground skills. plain and simple. Look at tank abbott. he had ZERO skill, and still mopped the floor with the TMA guys he faced. Why? He had the right mindset and he liked to fight. He was a barroom brawler who knew what it felt like to get hit and knew how to deal with it. consequently, he just plowed through people. It's not apples and oranges. And if you look at more recent fights, san da guys have beaten thai fighters in several cases, although the thais still have a better record overall. Why did the san da guys win? they trained properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC-Strayder Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 learn to fight = stay away from kung fu? What is a fight? Is a fight UFC? Cagewars? Street fight? What is a fight?. Back in my younger days I was fighting everyone who was dumb enough to fight me, wrestlers and karateka's too and the funny thing is that I had no training what so ever back then!!! Can I take a wrestler to day? A BJJ practitioner? Sure I can! No, not everyone, it all depens how good he is compaerd to me and how mush damage he is willing to take/give and how tough he is, but too say that kung fu is worthless is bull s*it!!!! So what the he77 do you thinking you are when you saying something like "stay away from....."? You realize off corce, (at least I hope you do) that the so called UFC and simular is just a show, sort off like the american wrestler show, a little different, but it is still a show and upon that you jugde other systems?. Thats not even ignorant, just plain stupid! All we say here will just be words and nothing else and if you are so dumb that you judge a style/system on what you see in a game or a ring or in a video it is your problem, I say thats ignorant and if you think it over for a sec you will think so too. I agree however, that some schools/dojo's/Kwoon's train there students poor and they lack every element in a MA style, but judging all on that?. I do not think so! Have a good training too ya all. If the first lesson was a failure, then you know that skydiving isn't for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmh1nic Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 "I've seen several 1 on 1 fights that lasted more than a minute, some involving chairs and sticks. As for the skill of the fighters, it doesn't matter. Most of the people you encounter in a fight/ watch fight on the street won't be trained. You don't have to be trained to have a beef with someone." "As for the skill of the fighters, it doesn't matter." The skill of the fighters ABSOLUTE does matter. We were also talking about TRAINED individuals. The fact that two untrained individuals can carry on for X number of minutes in a fight shows their lack of training. People that are trained to fight (combat, no rules, NHB, live or die situations) are trained to get it done and get it done quickly. "The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sano Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 TJS i notice you always say something when i'm gone. i can not wait to i make my debut in (i'm having a hard time choosing and i will not ask you guy's what i shall do.) WWE, NWA-TNA, Boxing, UFC, KOTC, Pride or heck even K-1 but i will let be know that i'm here and taking no prisoners. And i guess the first pro i destory will be chung le. thats how you know it will be me. or when i destory brock lenser or goldberg now that will really get me notice and i probaly will not us my real name it will be sano so you guys will now that kid on the computer was not joking falcon kick!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ONEfighting Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 ^^^ That guy needs a checkup from the neck up. Trainwreck Tiemeyerwishes he was R. Lee Ermey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 why? it would be a waste of time and effort. he's been going on about taking part in a pro competition for about half a year now. the last guy i spoke to about nhb fights signed on for a local fight and already took part (and lost...). this was two months ago. some people say. some people do. guess which group that kid belongs to. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 And i guess the first pro i destory will be chung le. thats how you know it will be me. or when i destory brock lenser or goldberg now that will really get me notice and i probaly will not us my real name it will be sano so you guys will now that kid on the computer was not joking yeah, whatever... lets come back to the thread. we will either see him prove on TV or not. just open a thread so we know what channel you are on and what tournament you are winning, that will do i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 "I've seen several 1 on 1 fights that lasted more than a minute, some involving chairs and sticks. As for the skill of the fighters, it doesn't matter. Most of the people you encounter in a fight/ watch fight on the street won't be trained. You don't have to be trained to have a beef with someone." "As for the skill of the fighters, it doesn't matter." The skill of the fighters ABSOLUTE does matter. We were also talking about TRAINED individuals. The fact that two untrained individuals can carry on for X number of minutes in a fight shows their lack of training. People that are trained to fight (combat, no rules, NHB, live or die situations) are trained to get it done and get it done quickly. still doesn't matter. change the scenario to two trained individuals. Now, you have two people who SHOULD know what they're doing. Consequently, it will be harder for one to seize victory. Now, if one individual is trained and the other isn't, it shouldn't matter, but even then you have to consider that the untrained fighter may have a weapon, or may just have that killer mindset. In all actuality you can't say how long a fight should last, because you don't know. All you can say it optimally, you think it should last X number of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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