learn to fight = stay away from kung fu?

[SevenStar]

In a nutshell, any martial art can teach you to fight. BUT, many traditional systems take longer by nature. They aren't designed to teach you how to fight QUICKLY. That's where people tend to get confused on the issue of whether or not an art will teach you to fight.

 

Traditional grappling styles - wrestling, bjj, judo, shuai chiao, etc. do not fall into that category because the nature of those systems is contact.

 

With sport styles, the learning is faster because it is the nature of the training, as with the grappling styles. you spar and refine your techniques simultaneously. It lends to faster progression. after a year of muay thai, you already have more experience than alot of traditional stylists with the same or slightly more training time, and possibly some fights under your belt.

 

When I was in longfist, you had to be a yellow sash before you were allowed to spar. If you came to class on a regular basis, it would take about 7 months to reach yellow sash. In some of the shotokan schools here, you must be orange belt, which is also about 7-8 months. Then, once you start sparring, it's only once a week or so - the main focus is on kata/forms, learning techniques, etc.

 

When I trained in karate, I trained with a Japanese friend of mine - his regimen was more similar to what the sport styles do - we started sparring early. This post is getting long, so I will post a part 2 to it.

[SevenStar]

In my experience with kung fu, people are obsessed with how they look while fighting... If you train mantis, you need to look like a mantis fighter. If you are a choy lay fut guy, you should move like one, etc. consequently, you spend time working on the forms, doing one step style cooperative sparring, various drills, etc. to get the essence of the style, so to speak. The theory behind that is that if you start sparring to soon, you will not yeat have the training and the movements ingrained into your "memory" and you won't fight the way a stylist of your art should.

 

I can see the merit of that, but also disagree with it. I look like a thai boxer when I spar - even after 4 years of longfist, I look like a thai boxer - it's those techniques that I prefer. now that I'm back in muay thai, I still look like a thai boxer. However, you can see karate influence in me also, thanks to Yuichi (the guy I was training with).

 

One argument that you will hear from some traditional guys is that the mechanics of TMA are alot more complicated than sport styles. That's simply not true. attend a bjj class and you'll see what I mean. Sport arts work on the mechanics as they are drilling/sparring. For example, in MT, we may work the jab/cross/hook combo. we will do it for a while and coach will make corrections.we will then hit focus mitts, while he is making corrections. we will next drill it with a partner - he will throw the combo, you pary/slip all of his strikes, then throw the same combo at him. you may get hit. If you drop your hands, we will make sure you get hit. And all the while, coach is making suggestions and corrections. When we spar, we have a combination we can use. If it's used wrong, if you drop your hands, etc. you will know...trust me.

[SevenStar]

In my experience with karate styles, they aren't concerned with you looking like a karate fighter, but they want to be sure that you have the basics down pat beforeyou spar. Consequently, you will spend white and yellow belt learning all of your basics, learning the first three kata and doing some one steps.

 

There's one other VERY important factor that I haven't yet mentioned - specialization. TMA tend not to specialize in anything, with the exception of grappling styles. In both karate and kung fu, you learn hundreds of strikes, several throws, weapons, etc. It wakes WAY too long to master them ALL, and due to time constraints, you can't work all of them all the time. This is not a problem in muay thai, for example. a thai boxer may only work 7 punches, 2 elbows, 5 knees and 2 kicks on a regular basis (I'm not including all of the elbows, knees and kicks, only the ones most commonly used) but he has them MASTERED. his forms - shadowboxing - have him repeatedly doing the exaclt techniques he will fight with, as do his other drills - padwork, sparring, bagwork, etc.

 

alot of TMA don't have that same advantage - I have never used a double knifehand block in fighting or sparring, never used a tornado kick, never used a tiger claw, never used a butterfly kick, etc. so my kungfu training methods did not directly reflect the techniques I would be using to fight. For these reasons, IMO, traditional styles CAN and will teach you how to fight, but it may take longer. There is an old shuai chiao saying - "one year of shuai chiao is equal to ten years in a striking style" That saying came about due to the reasons I stated above. By the time the other styles were just starting to learn their fighting, figure out what works for them, master timing, etc. the SC guys were way ahead because they had been doing that from the beginning.

[TJS]

If you want ot learn how to Fight i would suggest, Muay thai, boxing, BJJ, or San shou, or Kyokushin.

 

There are lots of other arts out there that are great at what they do but these would be my suggestion if fighting is your goal.

[Icetuete]

If you want ot learn how to Fight i would suggest, Muay thai, boxing, BJJ, or San shou, or Kyokushin.

 

Is San Shou the same as San Soo?

 

these are all competition styles that focus one range of fighting. did you refer to "learn how to Fight" as to "step intp the ring and learn techniques that work there" or did you mean "be able to defend yourself against a variety of attacks"?

 

i'm not saying that these styles dont work on street or something, just asking.

[TJS]

If you want ot learn how to Fight i would suggest, Muay thai, boxing, BJJ, or San shou, or Kyokushin.

 

Is San Shou the same as San Soo?

 

these are all competition styles that focus one range of fighting. did you refer to "learn how to Fight" as to "step intp the ring and learn techniques that work there" or did you mean "be able to defend yourself against a variety of attacks"?

 

i'm not saying that these styles dont work on street or something, just asking.

 

No san shou is diffrent than san soo it's similar to muay thai but it has throws/takdowns.

 

Your right most of the styles I listed are generally sport oriented. While they are not going to be 100% complete i belive they transfer over really well into a real fight for the most part.

 

I you want a Styles that is more oriented tword street fighting I would reccomend Krav Maga. If you can find a school with fight classes even better. It's very effective and you pick ip up quicker than most styles imo.

[ShirKhan]

If a "fighting" Kung Fu style is what you want I can recommend Northern Black Tiger. It's nothing but fighting. You'll learn to run over people like a truck.

[Warp Spider]

alot of TMA don't have that same advantage - I have never used a double knifehand block in fighting or sparring, never used a tornado kick, never used a tiger claw, never used a butterfly kick, etc.

 

As far as I know, butterfly kicks and tornado kicks aren't meant for fighting: It's pretty hard to do a complex move like that when you can't even see the person you're attacking. (due to the spinning and all)

[Treebranch]

How to fight=Kung Fu San Soo. I was being sarcastic because this is a direct and brutlal system of fighting that has worked for me far too many times for me to think otherwise. I can't speak for all San Soo schools, but it was the first MA that I had ever experienced multiple attacker scenarios as well as randori. With the proper training methods this system of fighting is at the top of the list of Combat MA's.

 

San Soo has everything that you can think of. It has boxing style striking with low meaningful kicks, hammer blows, elbows, knees, head strikes, throws, grappling, ground fighting, dirty techniques, weapons, multiple attacker techniques, randori, bag training. I don't know what else you'd want it's pretty fricken complete and it definitely works. It's not to complicated and the learning it is fairly easy. It's not a very popular nor is it a very well known MA. It's constantly being confused with San Shou which is a sport MA. San Soo is not a sport MA whatsoever. This is straight forward and brutal MA that doesn't waste any time or movement.

[SevenStar]

alot of TMA don't have that same advantage - I have never used a double knifehand block in fighting or sparring, never used a tornado kick, never used a tiger claw, never used a butterfly kick, etc.

 

As far as I know, butterfly kicks and tornado kicks aren't meant for fighting: It's pretty hard to do a complex move like that when you can't even see the person you're attacking. (due to the spinning and all)

 

That's exactly my point!!! It's a training exercise that you aren't going touse in a fight. sure, back in the day a butterfly kick was a good tactic for reamaining offensive while leaping over a spear or staff attack, but it serves no use for me in this day and age. But regardless, you still have to learn it. that's time that can be spent refining techniques that you WILL use.