Are we too paranoid?

[Drunken Monkey]

i thought seatbelts were there in case or a crash and there to limit the injuries in the event of a crash.

 

it is totally passive and does not cause injury to people (at least not on purpose).

 

a gun or knife however, by the nature of it's creation, is designed to hurt.

 

i don't think you can compare the two.

 

the fact that their applications in situations are thematically similar does not mean that the two ARE similar.

[tommarker]

Shorinryu Sensei,

 

I get the feeling you..oh sorry... "some people" are using Jerry's aggressive line of questioning as a red herring to avoid my point.

[tommarker]

Drunken Monkey,

 

You seem to be taking a very pessimistic view of firearms and knives. Without getting into a minor rant about how we use knives everyday and generally manage not to kill or harm people, I'd like you to try approaching it from this vantage point:

 

Guns and Knives were designed to PROTECT. At first, this may seem like a semantic difference. I can appreciate that you come from a slightly different culture than myself, so allow me to present the following.

 

 

 

As a child, my parents taught me how to safely handle a knife. One of my prized posessions given to me was a pearl handled pocketknife that my great grandfather gave to me a few years before he passed away. It was a knife that sat in his pocket daily while he worked as a chemical engineer, and sat in his pocket everyday after he retired and bought a small farm. Despite the fact that he fought in a war, and easily had the spirit to do so... he never killed or harmed anyone with this knife he carried everyday. Could he have? I'm certain.

 

Since that day, I've carried at least a small pocketknife like his (I stopped carrying his for fear I would lose it) and it has sat in my pocket for the last...16 years. In that time, I've faced plenty of disputes, arguements and fights. Yet, I too have managed to avoid stabbing or slashing anyone who crossed my path. Perhaps I am a paragon of virtue and benevolence.

 

I am in no hurry to either stab or shoot anyone. Yet I have trained in both. I have spent the last 6 years training in martial arts, but I'm in no hurry to test out my skills. In fact, you could say I have at my hands (and feet) a colorful myriad of ways to restrain, injure, main, and even kill someone.

 

Would I take every step to avoid using them? I believe so. If I was stuck in a situation where I had no choice but to employ them to defend my family and myself? I hope so.

 

What I object to is people who would endeavor to chip away at this ability by stating that I am being "paranoid" or can't be trusted to use an efficient means to defend myself and my family.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I apoligise for not responding sooner tommarker.

Shorin-Ryu Sensei,

 

I think that a majority of those who feel the need to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense have spent a long time asking tough questions of themselves. In a modern sense, I truly feel that the study of firearms is a martial art: one that requires the same amount of dedication and study as its Asian counterparts.

 

I agree with this. To be good at anything, especially a firearm, takes practice. And yes, I agree that it should be considered a "martial art".

A lot of people cling to the arguement that allowing concealed weapons will bring back some sort of lawless "Old West" style of crime and punishment where the gunslinger shoots first, asks questions later and blood fills our streets. However, the data just doesn't support this claim. Further, I think such talk only serves to insult those who would seek to exercise this right as being irrational or paranoid. Just as it would insult you to be told that since you are a kodanja, you're likely to murder someone with your bare hands for a trivial reason.

 

I am not a proponent of gun control. Geeze, if I was, I'd be hustled right out of the state on the next stage! However, I'm also not a proponent of unrestricted, everybody can carry a firearm, either. I think it's amazing that that small town in Georgia REQUIRES every homeowner or head of family to have a gun. Does anybody know how many people live in that town by chance?

 

What concerns me is if everybody in this country starts "packing" a weapon, the rate of murders is goiong to skyrocket. Why? (This is my opinion, so leave it alone) Because there are a lot of mentally unstable people in this world. People, that if they had a gun on their person, might be prone, in the heat of the moment, to draw it out and kill their wife or husband that day, or their boss, or a co-worker, whereas if they didn't have ready access to it, they would have time to cool down and think rationally about it....as most normal people do.

 

Anger or rage can make a person do things that they normally wouldn't do. Take road-rage for example. You're late for work, the boss is a pain in the butt, your wife just left you for another woman. Whatever, but you have a gun on you because of some neighborhood punks have been hanging out on your corner eyeing your new Lexus so your feel compelled, and it's legal, to carry a weapon to protect your property. You get to work and your boss lets you have it..threatens to fire you, dumps a weeks worth of work on your desk and tells you he wants it yesterday..whatever. Now, say this guy is a bit frazzled..we've all been there, right? He thinks to himself..."that ungrateful butthead..how dare he treat me like that...if I had a gun..." And wow, look at that...he DOES have a gun!

 

Sure, most RATIONAL people would stop there and get on with their lives, but when anger and rage kick in, rationality sometimes takes a hike. Ever hear of going "postal"? It just bothers me to think that every whacko out there could have a weapon, and if I do the wrong thing at the wrong moment, I could get myself, or a loved one...killed.

I live in Ohio, a state which is currently embroiled in a battle to allow concealed carry. One of only six states that prohibit such a method. A sticking point is that the Highway Patrol doesn't want permit holders to be able to keep their gun on their person while driving. Their advice to those facing a carjacking: "just drive away."

 

All you have to do in Montana to get a concealed permit is to go before a judge and state your first admendment rights? He will sign the order, and you can legally carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the state. Yes, it's that easy.

 

As for car jackers..my opinion is if they're standing in front of you, step on the gas! Alongside you? Duck and step on the gas!

People who say that you can run away, drive away, or completely avoid a confrontation through clean living, awareness, etc... Well of COURSE I'd love to be able to do that when possible. This isn't always possible. I want to have that option available to me, since I most likely won't have that police protection when I so desperately need it.

 

I agree that you can't always avoid confrontations with people or situations. But there are ways to lessen the chances of it. Awareness is one, training is another. Also, doing what you can to lessen the chances of problems, such as gang violence. If you don't want to be hassled by gangs in your neighborhood, then move to another neighborhood! This is a free country, and you can move anywhere that you like..there are no laws stopping you. We get tons of Californians and Texans moving here all the time that are trying to escape the life they had there, and find something better. I don't like it, but can't fault their efforts to improve their lives either.

 

Life is a matter of choices that we make daily. If your solution is to carry a gun to make yourself safer, then that is your choice. If everybody does that, you'd better stop running yellow lights (that jogger might have a .44 cal Desert Eagle in her spandex waistband) and cutting that little old lady off at the intersection (she has a Uzi in her purse), because you just might PO the wrong person some day, and end up dead.

 

I just feel, in my opinion, that we, as a society, are just getting to darn paranoid about this stuff, and I think the majority of it is caused by movies and television. I do not feel that hte solution is for everybody to "pack a gun". I do have, I think, a viable alternative..but that's a whole different thread.

[tommarker]

You're entitled to your opinion...(but.... )

 

But the mathematical chances of EVERYONE carrying a gun are pretty slim. There are plenty of people who plain just don't like them, feel like they would blow someone's head off, etc. And I respect their opinion.

 

But where it gets tricky, I think, is when we start talking about who should and who shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm. Should we restrict those with a felony on their record? That sounds reasonable at first... but what about a guy who commited a non-violent felony decades ago and now has managed to straighten themselves out and want to be able to protect themselves?

 

I too am worried about the truly loopy people out there, but the ones I'm really worried about are the ones who are carrying concealed weapons anyway, regardless of the law. In general, I have faith in the majority of people in this country to be able to accept the consequences of what comes with carrying a firearm -- knowing full well that the people who actively make this choice are considerably more likely to study, practice, and be even-tempered.

 

I apologize, by the way, if I sound in previous posts like I'm labeling you as anti-gun, etc. That wasn't my intent... but instead, I see a lot of people out there who believe in what some politicians call "common sense" gun control that sounds sensible on the surface, but when really thought about... has major problems.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

But the mathematical chances of EVERYONE carrying a gun are pretty slim. There are plenty of people who plain just don't like them, feel like they would blow someone's head off, etc. And I respect their opinion.

 

Granted..I can't see a priest, minister or rabbi walking down the street "packing"!

But where it gets tricky, I think, is when we start talking about who should and who shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm. Should we restrict those with a felony on their record? That sounds reasonable at first... but what about a guy who commited a non-violent felony decades ago and now has managed to straighten themselves out and want to be able to protect themselves?

 

Absolutly on violent offenders, or those commiting a felony and using a weapon, such as robbery and such. No question about that. A person commits a felony, he deserves to lose some rights IMHO.

I too am worried about the truly loopy people out there, but the ones I'm really worried about are the ones who are carrying concealed weapons anyway, regardless of the law.

 

You will always have people that break the law. I'm no angel myself because I drive faster than the posted speed limit on the highways most of the time, but otherwise, I'm pretty much you're average Joe and abide by the laws of the people.

In general, I have faith in the majority of people in this country to be able to accept the consequences of what comes with carrying a firearm -- knowing full well that the people who actively make this choice are considerably more likely to study, practice, and be even-tempered.

 

Yes, I'm sure your average person isn't a problem, but again, anger and rage can turn your average peson, in certain circumstances, into raging lunatics. I believe it's called temporary insanity. Have you ever lost your temper and hit something in anger? A wall perhaps, kicked the dog, or yelled at your kids for something that didn't need to happen? That's an example of tempory loss of control, and your average Joe Citizern would probably be able to control it wel lenough not to be a danger to others. But of course, not everyone is your average Joe. What about people with mental problems and are on meds? Maybe they forgot to take them that morning, or are a few hours late taking them? You want these people carrying guns?

 

This could go on and on, but I think you get my drift. I agree with what you're saying, really I do. I just get this wrentching in my gut when I see people on this, anbd other forums telling people to start packing guns for protection. That's how all of this started anyway.

 

[quiote]I apologize, by the way, if I sound in previous posts like I'm labeling you as anti-gun, etc. That wasn't my intent... but instead, I see a lot of people out there who believe in what some politicians call "common sense" gun control that sounds sensible on the surface, but when really thought about... has major problems.

 

No apoligy needed..I didn't take it that way. personally, I own a .44, .357, and two .22cal's and a 9mm pistol. I also have 2 12 guage shotguns, one a marine model riot gun (never been shot). the other a bird gun, which hasn't been used in many years. So, am I anti-gun? HA! Not hardly, but I do advocate the proper usage and training with guns. Do I carry any of these firearms on my person at any time? Yes, but only when I'm hunting or going camping/hiking. There's lots of critters that bite up here ya know, and a man in the woods isn't necessarily at the top of the food chain.

 

There is a disturbing trend in the world for giving up all firearms. England has already outlawed all guns a few years ago, including shotguns for sport only, unless (and correct me if I'm wrong) you belong to a licensed hunting, or gun club. All of those guns are to be kept at the club, not in the home...isn't that correct someone? I believe it was last year that Australia enacted a similar law, and all guns were required to be turned in by a specified date. I seem to recall that Canada is looking at something like this also??? Can anybody confirm or deny this?

 

I don't want to see that happen in this country, but also, i don't want to see every person packing a weapon on themselves either.

[gheinisch]

Hello Shorinryu Sensei,

 

The population of Kennesaw Ga. in 2000 was 21,625. Back in the late eighties I believe it was around 7,000. It's been growing every year, but all the towns around here seem to be doing that too. Here are some crime stats I found, not real current but interesting.

 

1981 (Year prior to Gun Ordinance)

 

Population: 5,242

 

Burglaries: 54

 

Total Crimes: 228

 

1982 (Year Gun Ordinance Passed)

 

Population: 5,308 (+1% )

 

Burglaries : 35 ( -35%)

 

Total Crimes: 165 ( -27%)

 

1998 (Compared to 1981)

 

Population: 19,000 ( +275%)

 

Burglaries: 36 (-33%)

 

Total Crimes 227(+0%)

[SBN Doug]

KSN Doug,

 

I was unaware that Texas had a debate on CCW. How did that turn out? I've always viewed Texas as more right-wing that Florida, and our [FL] CCW laws are pretty well accepted. I'm surprised to hear that CCW is/was contested in TX.

 

Anytime you get politicians involved, you'll always have a debate.

 

The law passed a year (I think) before I moved up here. So, that was about 6-7 years ago. Passed overwhelmingly, but not unanimously.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Thanks for the stats gheinisch. That town is roughly about the same size as where I'm at, minus all the surrounding people in smaller towns near here, and the thousands that live in the woods. Counting the surround area we have around 32,000 I guess.

 

That is really most impressive considering the large jump in population! I wonder what the local police think about it?

 

I did a little research and came up with these stats for my area..kind of an eye opener actually.

 

In 2001:

 

1 murder (7.0 per 100,000)

 

0 rapes (0.0 per 100,000)

 

1 robbery (7.0 per 100,000)

 

40 assaults (281.2 per 100,000)

 

100 burglaries (703.1 per 100,000)

 

1,126 larceny counts (7916.8 per 100,000)

 

44 auto thefts (309.4 per 100,000)

 

City-data.com crime index = 456.0 (higher means more crime, US average = 330.6)

 

It appears we're almost twice the national average in burglaries, which I wasn't aware of. Interesting stuff.

[Drunken Monkey]

i get your point but you seem to have missed mine.

 

i was saying that you can't compare seatbelts as a device to protect and guns/knives as a device to protect because they are fundamentally different.

 

a seltbelt, even when used to protect does not aim to hurt, injure or kill.

 

a gun or knife when used to protect can and probably will hurt, injure or kill.

 

i'm not saying that guns/knives and their owners are out to hurt people.