Treebranch Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 The most effective style is the one that teaches all aspects of fighting including psychologically unbalancing your opponent and evasion / escape techniques. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Jujitsu throws are not judo throws. A jujitsuka will not just try and throw someone first thing. Strikes and unbalancing moves come first. The jujitsuka will momentarily disable or unbalance you so he can make the throw. Once he's in position to throw, it will most likely be too late. A karateka will have to rely on defeating the jujitsuka before he gets into a throwing position. three basics of a judo throw kazushi tskuri kake UNBALACE, fit in, execution. Judo seeks to unbalance first. the unbalance and the fit in are ideally done in what seems to be one motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Some of the basic throws you see look easy to counter; that's because they are basic. The more advanced throws are hard or sometimes impossible to counter once the jujitsuka has you and is ready to throw. look at the last line... "once he has you and is ready to throw"... like I said, it's a timing issue. Alot of judo throws aren't gonna be countered once it in motion either. Same goes for a bjj submission. countering is all in the timing. No throw is inherently impossible to counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 SevenStar - I agree. I didn't make it clear, but I was replying to Natural's comment:if a jujitsuka grabs a karateka and about to toss him, the karateka just grab the suits and knee him in the face for 5 times and he'll be bledding If the jujitsuka has the karateka and is 'about to toss him', the karateka doesn't stand much of a chance. The karateka has to win the fight before it reaches that stage. shotokan karate nidanjujitsu shodankendo shodan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Agreed Tal. Judo throws are clean and crisp, and studying judo can truly refine some very useful takedown skills, but... judo is sport-oriented, and therefore does not include examination into defense against striking. In judo, if a throw is blocked, he simply switches up or reverts to ready position. However, in real encounters, being blocked is soon followed by a few elbows to the back of the head, or possibly a snapkick to the shin/knee. Maybe even a footstomp or ear wrench. back to my tani example - as you are going backwards, no strike you do is going to have enough power to stop you from falling. Why? because you are uprooted and going backwards. I see what you're saying and it's valid, but you can't discount judo because of a lack of strikes. Kano showed them that back then also, when his buys beat them... Combat jujutsu is the unrefined base for which Kano jujutsu (judo) was created. Also, you have to realize that judo is based on only one type of combat jujutsu. There are actually a variety of different jujutsu styles, just as there are a variety of karate styles. Although similar, each has their 'focus,' their strengths and their weaknesses. that's not true. Kano studied several styles of tjj and based judo on three of them. Anyway, combat jujutsu implements strikes, kicks, and other means of hurting your opponent other than merely throwing and grappling. To presume the entirety of jujutsu is groundwork is to end up getting a beatdown. Actually, I presume the opposite. since TJJ does strikes, locks, throws and gorundwork, their ground time is understandably limited, unless you are talking about bjj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 SevenStar - I agree. I didn't make it clear, but I was replying to Natural's comment:if a jujitsuka grabs a karateka and about to toss him, the karateka just grab the suits and knee him in the face for 5 times and he'll be bledding If the jujitsuka has the karateka and is 'about to toss him', the karateka doesn't stand much of a chance. The karateka has to win the fight before it reaches that stage. Gotcha. My bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treebranch Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 That all depends on the instruction and what you focus on. It's hard to be a specialist when your goal is to be rounded. You only need to be a specialist if you are competing against highly trained people. Which most cases won't be the case. So it all depend on where you are coming from. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Warlock Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I see what you're saying and it's valid, but you can't discount judo because of a lack of strikes. Kano showed them that back then also, when his buys beat them... I don't discount judo because of lack of strikes. Not sure where you got that from what i posted. My comments of, "being blocked is soon followed by a few elbows to the back of the head, or possibly a snapkick to the shin/knee. Maybe even a footstomp or ear wrench" was in reference to the person who blocked a judo throw. A purist judoist isn't used to dealing with someone who blocks their throw and then proceeds to follow up with strikes, or that blocks in conjunction with strikes. Granted this is based on personal experience and therefore my opinion.that's not true. Kano studied several styles of tjj and based judo on three of them. Hehe, yes you are correct. That's what i get for rushing in to make a point. Actually, I presume the opposite. since TJJ does strikes, locks, throws and gorundwork, their ground time is understandably limited, unless you are talking about bjj. Hehe, that's good. Most people nowadays associate ju-jutsu with bjj, and therefore assume groundwork. "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 It wasn't a specific "you", but all inclusive to anyone who may feel that way. It wasn't geared toward you because of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Warlock Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Ahh, hehe. The floundering wonder that is internet discussion boards. "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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