Treebranch Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I agree with both of you Delta and TJS on one point only. Someone that is very athletic and trains hard will definitely have an advantage over a non-athletic Martial Artist. I'm generalizing of course because we haven't hit on the experience factor at all. The point I was trying to make is that the training methods of ring fighters are definitely superior to most non-sport MA's. I think that if these training methods were to be incorporated into most Non-Sport MA's it would be a different story. You'd find that many of the techniques do in fact work just fine with the exclusion of a few styles I won't mention for the sake of not insulting anyone. Also, I will say again that someone that is well versed in weaponary will be better at evading one. Also the psychology behind weapons training is completely different. You just assume everyone has a weapon, so don't get too close and look for clues. That is why many Traditional MA's bait and wait for the attack in most situations. So basically the most effective system of fighting in my opinion would be one that employs weapons training and takes into account different environments, such sand, snow, rain, water (slippery surfaces), roof of house, rocky surfaces etc. For example, I bet you there are very few fighters with the exception of a few that can fight on ice as well as a hocky player. Hee, hee, hee. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treebranch Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 What? Hello.... Is anybody out there. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I'll add my two cents: Firstly, I think if there were better techniques and tactics out there for fighting than what MMA fighters are currently doing, they'd be absorbed by the MMA community immediately. MMA is all about "absorbing what is useful, discarding that which isn't". It's not about politics - so you're not going to have a MMA school they won't do a certain type of technique that's been proven because their master didn't show them. Secondly, I don't thnk there are many absolutes. Regarding knives and grappling, sure you don't want to be clinch the guy and get stabbed, but being in close and controlling your opponent and his limbs is what most disarms are trying to achieve anyway. If the guy has his knife concealed, at least if you tie him up and keep him off balance he might not have a chance to draw his weapon before you throw him on his head, or break his arm. I've heard of many stories of people being in fights and punching-on with their opponent and not realising they were being stabbed - they just thought the other guy was punching them in the chest. So staying at arms-length isn't necessarily a better option than begin in close when it comes to defense against a knife. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treebranch Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 No they would not because the goal is not the same. If I am training warriors to fight in battle I am not going to train them like Mixed Martial Artists. There are many things taught that translate better when you have a weapon in your hands. There are many techniques that would be useless to a MMA competitor, but useful to someone in a life and death situation. I don't think that MMA's is about training for a real situation at all, it is for the ring. Where is the study of weapons and tactics? If I am going to train individuals to fight in the ring than yes. I think it's a completely different mind set and I don't think you are hearing what I am saying. Most MMA's only teach Muay Thai with BJJ and Judo, which are all sport MA's. It makes sense to mix sport arts that cover standing, grappling, groundfighting, for MMA tournaments, it's smart. Plus those MA's already were well trained and fighting already so it's a no brainer. What I am saying is somewhere along the way TMA's stopped training hard or training the right way. It doesn't necessarily mean the techniques aren't useful to teach someone how to fight. It really means that the training methods are no good. So if someone was to take an MA like Budo Taijutsu or San Soo or Arnis and incorporate strength training and rigorous regiments. I don't think there would be a real clear line drawn there. It would and has always depends on the fighter and his tactics. Any good MA whether it is Traditional or Modern knows that you must train for every situation. Which means you better have good stand-up skills as well as groundfighting/grappling skills. I am a big advocate of weapons training not excluding firearms of course if you really want prepare for reality. If you are a ring fighter and I applaud you, I love to watch a good fight. But you must train for your purpose and each purpose is different. All I have to say is the world is a big place with lots of surprises and it is always adapting and changing. I think TMA's are learning a lot from MMA's and if things keep moving in this direction fighters that have trained hard in whatever style will emerge and surprise everyone. You don't have to agree with me if you don't want to, that's O.K. I have my reasons for thinking the way I do and I've put it to the test. I'm not a competitive fighter, I missed the boat there and I have my passion of Art that I have dedicated most of my life to. Martial Arts for me is fascinating and unpredictable. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrogers Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Most effective style, hmm good question in each style, there is invidual style or interprestation of the style they are being taught in that regard your instructor has his own likes or strong points in his curriculum which then passes off to you the student. This is why people from the same style can tell who's student is who. you got to make your style work for you. In that regards training training training. But depends on what your looking for. You want to do self defense there are plenty of good styles out there. Whats important is you the student and how well you can grasp and perform the concepts nad techniques and put them in a more real training experience. Also is important is finding a good quality instructor who empasizes what your looking for and needs. So what are you looking for? Self defense, sport competion, or something else? -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Personally, i am not a fan of wrestling at all, or any type of ground fighting etc. But i definately think that groundfighting is probably the most effective style out there, ive been think ing about this alot. Everytime i watch king of the cage or UFC or pride fighting, everythign almost ends on the floor. The other day i was watching Mirko CroCop fight an opponent which knows jiu jitsu. Anyway Mirko was killing him so badly with his legs, punches etc. then all of a sudden this guy knocks Mirko to the flor, gets his hand in a rall bad position and Mirko had to tap out, he lost for nothing, it just shows you that a good jiu jitsu fighter doesnt even have to know any punching, kickin etc techniques, all he needs is his ground techniques, once he charges at you and knock you down he will most liekly win. What do you guys think? In the UFC, you can't hit in the crotch or the eye. If you're taking someone down and they're in a lot of pain, a fingernail right in the middle of your eye slicing tissue will make most people let go fast and take them out for a long time. Anyone who's gotten tagged in the crotch knows how bad that hurts. Imagine thinking you've got the guy in a really good lock and getting your crotch chomped on hard. People will bite, scratch, tear, and claw when you grapple them. Above all, concrete hurts a lot. Don't get close to a desperate losing man. Know thyself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Personally, i am not a fan of wrestling at all, or any type of ground fighting etc. But i definately think that groundfighting is probably the most effective style out there, ive been think ing about this alot. Everytime i watch king of the cage or UFC or pride fighting, everythign almost ends on the floor. The other day i was watching Mirko CroCop fight an opponent which knows jiu jitsu. Anyway Mirko was killing him so badly with his legs, punches etc. then all of a sudden this guy knocks Mirko to the flor, gets his hand in a rall bad position and Mirko had to tap out, he lost for nothing, it just shows you that a good jiu jitsu fighter doesnt even have to know any punching, kickin etc techniques, all he needs is his ground techniques, once he charges at you and knock you down he will most liekly win. What do you guys think? In the UFC, you can't hit in the crotch or the eye. If you're taking someone down and they're in a lot of pain, a fingernail right in the middle of your eye slicing tissue will make most people let go fast and take them out for a long time. Anyone who's gotten tagged in the crotch knows how bad that hurts. Imagine thinking you've got the guy in a really good lock and getting your crotch chomped on hard. People will bite, scratch, tear, and claw when you grapple them. Above all, concrete hurts a lot. Don't get close to a desperate losing man. Man you got it figured out, You should go Challenge mark Kerr or Mark coleman and make a name for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLove Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Man you got it figured out, You should go Challenge mark Kerr or Mark coleman and make a name for yourself. I assume you mean to a street fight, not to a NHB match. OTOH, do you do an art that you think is more complete than boxing? When will you be fighting Mike Tyson? Perhaps a given individual does not need to be able to defeat another in order to have a better idea. There is certainly something to be said for size, strength, speed, endurance, skill level and experience. https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori_Te Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 The most effective style is the one you can adapt to yourself and use effectively if needed. Other than that there is no most effective style. What may be effective for me may be out of reach for you or vice versa. A block is a strike is a lock is a throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Man you got it figured out, You should go Challenge mark Kerr or Mark coleman and make a name for yourself. Why would I care to do that? I've got better things to do. What I'm basically saying is that when you subtract rules from the fight, anything goes. They don't ban eye and crotch contact just because it makes things more challenging. Unless you feel no pain, when you lose an eye or take a hard hit to the crotch, most of the time it's over. These are probably the two worst vital points to hit on anyone. Know thyself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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