Topic Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 Personally, i am not a fan of wrestling at all, or any type of ground fighting etc. But i definately think that groundfighting is probably the most effective style out there, ive been think ing about this alot. Everytime i watch king of the cage or UFC or pride fighting, everythign almost ends on the floor. The other day i was watching Mirko CroCop fight an opponent which knows jiu jitsu. Anyway Mirko was killing him so badly with his legs, punches etc. then all of a sudden this guy knocks Mirko to the flor, gets his hand in a rall bad position and Mirko had to tap out, he lost for nothing, it just shows you that a good jiu jitsu fighter doesnt even have to know any punching, kickin etc techniques, all he needs is his ground techniques, once he charges at you and knock you down he will most liekly win. What do you guys think?
TJS Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 Personally, i am not a fan of wrestling at all, or any type of ground fighting etc. But i definately think that groundfighting is probably the most effective style out there, ive been think ing about this alot. Everytime i watch king of the cage or UFC or pride fighting, everythign almost ends on the floor. The other day i was watching Mirko CroCop fight an opponent which knows jiu jitsu. Anyway Mirko was killing him so badly with his legs, punches etc. then all of a sudden this guy knocks Mirko to the flor, gets his hand in a rall bad position and Mirko had to tap out, he lost for nothing, it just shows you that a good jiu jitsu fighter doesnt even have to know any punching, kickin etc techniques, all he needs is his ground techniques, once he charges at you and knock you down he will most liekly win. What do you guys think? 1st) If Antonio Rodrigo Nogiura didint know and standup fighting he would have been knocked out in the first minute. 2nd) he didint just knock him down he has been working with wrestlers and performed what is called a double leg takedown. 3rd) it was an Arm Bar he caugt him in, Lastly yes I think without cross training a grappler is more likely to win becuase it is easier for him to close the distance and grapple than it is to keep. Some people attempt to deny this but they have obviously been living in a closet the last 10 years.. Today cross training is neccesary..If a striker is good enough to avoid the takedowns and avois submission then he can make the grappler play his game and knock him out. Grapplers have to learn how to survive on their feet and get a takedown if they dont they will get knocked out...you are seeing more grapplers not being able to stand and take people down...but obviously the good ones have evolved and cross train aswell.
Ben Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 Yup, the best way to become "all you can" is to keep a real open mind and cross train... the other day, i sparred with a friend that did boxing. i always thought i could take on a boxer. needless to say, he could probably take an ironbar to the face, and then hit you with his fist harder than you'd think possible but really... UFC fighters, no matter what style they claim they do, have all cross trained. every single one of them - as have a lot of great fighters. It might not be your thing, but hey, get the basic locks, throws, counters, then you'll have a better chance in a self-defense situation/tourney
CsrCrz88 Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 It might not be your thing, but hey, get the basic locks, throws, counters, then you'll have a better chance in a self-defense situation/tourney yea i agree i'm not the ground fighting type either but i still try to learn as much as i can just in case.
Treebranch Posted November 18, 2003 Posted November 18, 2003 Well this is my opinion and that's all. I feel that there are certain systems of fighting out there that could be just as or more effective than what we are seeing if they were to train like these professional fighters train. I think a well rounded MA if trained properly and with the intention of fighting in the ring would do very well. I don't think this will ever happen, for reasons I can't figure out. I would really enjoy watching something like that. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
delta1 Posted November 18, 2003 Posted November 18, 2003 I'm a believer in cross training. But you just can't compare what two trained athletes in the ring with rules do to a street encounter. A well rounded and conditioned athlete would fare better in a street encounter than most, but I'd bet he'd adjust his tactics to the different environment and circumstances. He'd use more devastating options, and the goal would not be to get a subission. And in a seriouse fight, I doubt if he'd take it to the ground as a first option. There are a lot of effective styles, a few effective fighters, but there's no one most effective anything. Just my opinion. Freedom isn't free!
Treebranch Posted November 18, 2003 Posted November 18, 2003 What if that someone on the street garnishes a knife and happens to be trained to use it. Does a ring fighter constantly train for that? I was trying to say that well rounded MA studies everything about fighting including weapons which how most that were actually used in Combat teach. I was also trying to make the point that the training methods of the athletes you speak of can be used for any MA to create an effecient fighter from most legit systems of fighting. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
TJS Posted November 18, 2003 Posted November 18, 2003 What if that someone on the street garnishes a knife and happens to be trained to use it Then you will proabably die unless you have a weapon of your own or somethign in the enviroment you can use.
delta1 Posted November 19, 2003 Posted November 19, 2003 Treebranch, if you were replying to me, you missed my point entirely. I think we are pretty much in agreement here. If you weren't replying to me, sorry. But we are still pretty much in agreement. Like anything else, the athlete would stand a much better chance of surviving a knife attack if he trains for it. But even if he doesn't train specifically for that, most of his skills from the ring would transfer IF he is able to make the necessary adjustments impromptu and under stress. The possibility of a knife is one of the reasons an mma type or grappler would not do something like tie up or start rolling around with the opponent as a primary strategy. Freedom isn't free!
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