Punching and Kicking air

[thenakedpage]

When you punch or kick a bag, you accelerate your limb all the way through the target. Then your limb hits the bag and stops. When you practice the same strikes with exertion against the air you're subconciously stopping your limb by the time it reaches point of imaginary impact so you don't fall over/lose your balance. All your strikes become internal forces, or tutu fairy dance moves, if you will.

 

Unfortunately I've seen people where this is their primary way of training punches and kicks. Then they side kick the bag and fall over.

 

Owing to the physics of a strike, you couldn't be further from the truth Reklats. At full stretch, a basic straight twisting punch has far less force than a punch from an arm that is only 75% extended. In fact, maximum velocity in a punch is reached at 75% of an arms extension.

 

Once an arm begins the process of acceleration, it also begins the process of deceleration. At full stretch the fist is inert, and no force, mass, momentum or whatever is going forward or can be transferred. Any target must be within this range of 75% to 100%. So your point of imaginary impact while punching air is reached well before you would fall over or lose balance.

 

There is no man alive, nor will there ever be, who can force a punch to accelerate through anything quicker than through air. Air offers no resistance. And, unlike a bag, you can hit through an imaginary target at full tilt.

 

But enough of the facts. I think that the crux of the matter is being overlooked. The three main tenets of most martial arts styles are kihon (basics), kata (forms) and kumite (sparring). Takbulldog didn't say how long he had been training for, or even whether he was allowed to spar yet, but there is a natural progression in all martial arts. Basics, or standing in lines whilst punching or kicking air, are not designed to make you a better fighter in the short term, but allow you to perfect something that has not previously been mentioned in this discussion - technique. Without proper knowledge of technique, sparring is useless. Without a proper foundation (basics), or strong walls (kata), you cannot have a roof (sparring ability). To be a good martial artist, you must build from the ground up. And you shouldn't leave training to the dojo alone. Do some push-ups at home, get yourself a punching bag, some weights, whatever - but you should make an effort to take some of your training into your own hands - anything less is a failure on your own part to take responsibility. Bruce Lee put in at least four hours a day to get where he was. Natural ability alone could not have taken him there. You are no different.

[Treebranch]

I like my Sensei but I'm tired of punching and kicking air.

 

We do no bag work, no strength training. Just kata.

 

I'm switching to something more physical and street prep. Im thinking of taking San Soo. I dont want to be a pro fighter, I just want to make sure I can handle myself if i'm ever attacked. Any other suggestions?

 

I highly encourage you to take San Soo, ask if they do bag work. My school did bag work very often and it's absolutely essential. If you are not happy with any school leave. San Soo will make you very effective if someone is stupid enough to attack you.

[Reklats]

Once an arm begins the process of acceleration, it also begins the process of deceleration. At full stretch the fist is inert, and no force, mass, momentum or whatever is going forward or can be transferred. Any target must be within this range of 75% to 100%. So your point of imaginary impact while punching air is reached well before you would fall over or lose balance.

 

There is no man alive, nor will there ever be, who can force a punch to accelerate through anything quicker than through air. Air offers no resistance. And, unlike a bag, you can hit through an imaginary target at full tilt.

 

Sorry, my first post wasn't clear. Here's an analogy: Lets pretend there are two race cars that have to go a quarter mile as fast as possible, then stop in the next 100 yards or they go off a cliff. One car has normal brakes, the other car has brakes AND a parachute to slow it down. The chute equipped car can be going faster when it crosses the finish line because it has better stopping ability. The other car has to start slowing down sooner if it wants to stop in time.

 

The same thing applies to hands and feet. If you're used to punching a bag you learn to keep accelerating your fist until it hits the bag and stops. If you're used to punching air you're used to beginning the deceleration of your hand early so you stop before your arm reaches full extension. Or like Hugh says you punch your joints apart.

 

I didn't literally mean "accelerate through the bag", I meant "mentally accelerate until the last possible moment." I expressed it poorly though.

[Ozaru]

What the h... kind of instructor teaches with no bag work. That is just negligent

[Treebranch]

Well I think a balance is necessary in all cases. For example, Boxers shadow box. So basically punching and kicking air isn't invalid, but it shouldn't be the only thing you do.

[Drunken Monkey]

cars bad example.

 

makes no difference in a straight line sprint.

 

both cars will be going flat out and slowing down will only occur after they have crossed the line.

 

anyway,

 

you don't mentally stop your punch.

 

your punch happens to get stopped by the thing you are hitting.

 

whether you are punching air or punching air, you have a focus point.

 

with a bag it is 'easier' to focus a punch because you know where it is going to get stopped.

 

when punching air you pick an imaginary point and aim for it.

 

in both cases, you are accelerating (or at least try to accelerate) your punch until you are past that point.

[Treebranch]

Do a little experiment. Have someone hold a kicking pad and let them punch it hard. Then when they least expect it pull it away and see what happens to their balance. Both punching and kicking air and bags are necessary, they both teach different things.

[Reklats]

Exactly Treebranch.

 

Punching air instead of a bag teaches people to internalize the punching force and reduces power.

[Drunken Monkey]

i think you'll find that in his example, the pad equates to the bag...

 

it sounds like you have taken the end point of a punch done in the air to be the 'hit' point.

 

the target is set before your arm is at full stretch.

 

it follows that your would not be slowing down before you have made your hit.

 

just to offer a counterpoint, i'm going to say that punching a bag is the one that is more likely to limit your power because you get used to not having to work once you have hit the bag.

 

i.e you actually stop the punch once you have made contact hence no follow through.

 

also, hitting a bag doesn't work your rechamber which is just as important as your outward punch.

 

when you are hitting a bag, you let the impact/recoil do half of the work of rechambering your punch.

 

punching in the air forces you to do all of the work, all of the time, which in the long term, is better for your punch/technique.

 

and please explain again how punching in the air slows your punch down?

 

using words like 'internalise', 'force' and 'power' in the same sentence might sound good but it does not make an explaination.

[JohnnyS]

I've also found that kicking and punching the air, and trying to get the "snap" causes joint porblems. The head guy for TKD in my area had to get a hip replacement because of the stress the kicks placed on his body.