pvwingchun Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 In a confrontation, street fight, self defense situation, How often does it go to the ground? I have heard numbers ranging from 10% to 90%. My actual experience tells me it is low but not as low as 10%. I would like some informed opinions here please and if you have them actual statistics, though I doubt they exist. Please don't respond with the typical ground fighting answer that it is the only way to go proven by the NHB or Ultimate Fighting, or you will never get me to the ground from the stand up guys because it happens. I would like actual discussion and "informed" opinion. Thanks in advance. Wing Chun Kuen Alliancehttps://www.wing-chun.us
szorn Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 I have been told that the Department of Justice Statistics state that approximately 60% of fights go to the ground, however I have yet to confirm this as it doesn't seem to be posted on the DOJ website. In any case, a good majority of them end up on the ground but not ALL of them as ground fighters would like the public to believe. A good study is to check out newspaper articles pertaining to physical altercations and shows like Real TV and Cops tend to have some good clips of physical altercations, some ending up on the ground. There are a number of ways that people can end up on the ground during physical altercations and given the fact that a majority of altercations take place in confined / limited spaces such as night clubs, houses, etc or near obstacles such as curbs, cars, stairs, etc. there is a good chance of any altercation ending up on the ground during some point. In short, I think the best thing to do is be knowledgable in all aspects and all planes of combat so that we can transition through any situation we might find ourselves in. Steve Integrated Self-Defense Systems http://www.geocities.com/combatives Personal Safety Unlimitedhttp://www.geocities.com/combatives
Reklats Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 I'd say it depends on what the people fighting want. If you're looking at police fights I bet most of them go to the ground because they're about subduing, not bludgeoning someone into submission.
cross Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 Every fight will pan out differently so the statistics dont make much difference. But dont forget that 50% of the time someone wins. lol
pvwingchun Posted November 11, 2003 Author Posted November 11, 2003 Thanks for the responses. I am curious because we always tell our students 90% go to the ground although my personal experience tells me less than 50% end up there. Wing Chun Kuen Alliancehttps://www.wing-chun.us
ZR440 Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 The thing I've always wondered about in this supposed statistic is how going to the ground is defined. Is it a fight that originates with exchanges of strikes or kicks and then as one person gets hurt enough the other pounces on them to finish it off? Or is it a fight where someone shoots in to grapple/wrestle right from the start? I don't think the facts are clear. And I don't think martial arts systems (based on hundreds of years of observation and experience) would teach upper body strikes and kicks as much if 90% of the fights went to the ground the way some so-called experts claim. It's happy hour somewhere in the world.
shotokanwarrior Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 The self defence situations my instructor was in all lasted but 30 seconds and never went to the ground. Where Art ends, nature begins.
SevenStar Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 Reklats said: I'd say it depends on what the people fighting want. If you're looking at police fights I bet most of them go to the ground because they're about subduing, not bludgeoning someone into submission. not really. Thre are other factors. you may not WANT to go to the ground, but you could be jerked around and dragged down by someone. you can slip in a puddle or on some loose object. You can get clocked and temporarily lose balance, during which time he takes you down...
SevenStar Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 shotokanwarrior said: The self defence situations my instructor was in all lasted but 30 seconds and never went to the ground. did you see them? not doubting your instructor, but almost everyone I know who's into MA has some instructor who says something along those lines. It's kinda like the "my styles grandmaster is 232323-0 in challenge matches" thing.
Reklats Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 SevenStar said: not really. Thre are other factors. you may not WANT to go to the ground, but you could be jerked around and dragged down by someone. So, the one person WANTED to go to the ground and got their way. Quote You can get clocked and temporarily lose balance, during which time he takes you down... Same thing. If both people WANT to stay standing then they generally will. If both people want to grapple they'll grapple. If only one person wants the ground they're more likely to get it than the other person is to successfully remain standing, as a rule of thumb.
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