Do Grading failers quit?

[AngelaG]

 

... it is a fault with the instructor. Maybe they should communicate with their students a bit more!

 

Like tell them they are not going to get a black belt under a certain age or more time spent. What is the average time in your school-to achieve the rank?

 

 

Average time? Hard to say as not many people have achieved it. Minimum time is 3 years of very hard training. Expected minimum for the majority 4.5 years.

 

I think it's like climbing a ladder, some people prefer to take a rung at a time and not know how much more they have to go, other people like to look at the top and set their sights up there and not give up until they get up there. I take that attitude.

 

FWIW we don't have any junior BBs at my club so your arguments about young people not having the necessary understanding or maturity are kind of acedemic

[Drunken Monkey]

what the belt system offers.

 

i) organisation of class: instant knowing of the 'stage' of leaning the particular student is at.

 

ii) organisation of teaching: consistant, regular, methodical teaching

 

the above two also works for the students.

 

i) the student knows, due to the accompanying syllabus, what needs to be done

 

ii) the student can see clearly what is being learnt and when.

 

"Sure it has. Because it became a commercial symbol falsely meaning excellence."

 

the belts are a dead thing; they can't by their nature, do anything.

 

symbols are place upon them by people.

 

like i said, if there wasn't a belt system in place, people would use something else as a basis for 'rank' (time, knowledge, age....)

 

"And the people who rank them because there are profits to be made.

 

Black Belt=Profits. No Black Belt=No Profits "

 

not sure why you put this as it is just an example of how the belt system can be abused.

 

again, it isn't the system's fault.

 

it could be argued that without a clear grade system and syllabus,

 

it is EASIER to suck money out of students.

 

it happens.

 

especially in the chinese styles because the students has no idea what is going on in terms to learning.

 

"if the rank did not exist, many would learn for the knowledge and not the rank."

 

you can't say that.

 

so are you sying that all black belts out there learnt and trained just for the black belt?

 

no offence but you really should stop citing specific examples.

 

anyone can offer an example of something.

 

saying that a 12 year old shouldn't get a black belt is fine and no one is going to argue with you

 

but

 

how do you know that the 18 year old who did it in 2 years at a very expensive school doesn't deserve it?

 

that's another thing.

 

i know a school in a very expensive part of london that charges a lot

 

but they don't make that much money.

 

the reason for the costs is primarily for the location and facilities that the place offers.

 

does his high fees mean he is a 'mcdojo'?

 

sure he can choose to move

 

but then that would deny his students the use of the very expensive facilities that would otherwise cost them even more to use.

 

we are talking general problems so try to stick with general statements.

 

as angela keeps saying.

 

it's all down to communication.

 

whether or not the belt grade system is used doesn't matter.

 

you've probably seen me differentiate between learning and training.

 

that is how i see things.

 

the colour belts are about learning (learning to train?).

 

the black belt is about training (learning by training?).

 

(no semantics please, you know what i mean)

 

that is something that should be pressed into people more.

 

of course there's the simple solution:

 

stop teaching kids.......

[AngelaG]

of course there's the simple solution:

 

stop teaching kids.......

 

I totally agree with your above post, it was very well thought out and articulately written. However the one thing I disagree with is the above statement, but I'm not sure whether you are playing devil's advocate.

 

MA can do do so much for children. As an instructor I watch with fascination as the children mature and develop over time and I know I am a part of this! Again it comes down to communication, adults have to realise that you don't have to talk down to kids; they are capable of understanding a lot more than you think. As long as the boundaries between adults' grades and junior grades are understood then there should be no problems.

 

And talking from a commercial view (and I see nothing wrong in someone trying to make a legitimate living out of MA) children are the lifeblood of the dojo. Without kids in MA many dojo would have to close down.

 

Remember, today's 10 year old white belt could be tomorrow's champion black belt!

[Drunken Monkey]

no.... i don't do the devil's advocate thing.

 

i think it tends to cause more arguments that would be otherwise avoided if i just say what i have to say instead.

 

that little quote is almost a joke

 

but the intention is there.

 

what i mean is there should be more of a selection process involved.

 

educational schools get to choose their students so why not the MA school?

 

part of the problem i see with kids is that in some cases,

 

it isn't the child's wish to do MA.

 

i don't think it is something you should 'force' a kid to do.

 

the skills you learn in a MA class gives you something that the average kid isn't going to understand the repercussions of.

 

a child isn't legally responsible for his actions so why give them more things to not be responsible for?

 

which goes back to my thing about selecting students.

 

side note, my main wing chun sifu does not allow anyone under 12 to join in the class.

[AngelaG]

I think that a child may be "forced" to initially attend karate but if they don't like it after the first couple of lessons then it is wrong to force them to continue go. It is my job to get them interested enough in those first two lessons that they want to stay!

[Grenadier]

Failing a belt test is always a great disappointment, both to the student who failed, as well as to the instructor (I've been on both sides, and even recently as a student). How well the student and teacher recovers from such disappointment (believe me, it IS a depressing thing, indeed, on both sides), depends on the strength and experience of the people involved.

 

It's not entirely unusual to see a beginner / intermediate student, who failed a test, quit entirely. Many times, they're simply not experienced enough (both in and out of the classroom) to deal with such failures, and let their feelings of depression get the better of them.

 

While some folks may discard such students and say "well, they would have been weeded out anyways," and while I may somewhat agree with that statement, I still believe that there are those who simply needed more development, and could have easily passed the retaking of the test in the future, and could have become excellent martial artists in due time. To casually throw away diamonds in the rough might not be the best idea, IMHO.

 

Failing a student at a low rank is very likely to cause quitting, while those who are more advanced, and have seen such things in the past, seem to be less likely to quit. Usually, this predicament is avoided by not letting the student test until the instructor deems that he is ready to do so, but even then, we're all only human, and mistakes can occur.

 

Failing an advanced student shouldn't cause quitting, assuming that the student is sufficiently mature to handle such things, and that he is willing to try even harder the next time. At this point, I would have to agree, that it's up to the student to pick himself up, and rebuild (of course, with encouragement from the teacher).

[Zhong Gau]

I am curious as to how many MA's on the forum have been denied their next belt?

 

I have been denied to return to one of my teachers until i find and learn three specific forms which he knows -probably exclusively- from his days with the wadering monks durring the Maoist Revolution. I can go back and visit, but they won't show me new dirty tricks until i can show these: Buk Pai, Bagua Chum Choi, and a unique petition form.

[senna_trem]

One of the things I pride myself in outside the dojo is knowing when I am ready to do things, so I do not ever take a test knowing that I do not know all the things that are required of me.

[1kickKO]

Surprisingly I see that most people in my system and many many others who fail, always come abck a second time, and generally end up getting their belt.