Sorynn Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 How did you learn the level of power to put into joint manipulations? A better question may be... How did you safely learn to mantain the proper level of tension in joint manipulations without going overboard and injuring your training partners? Here is some background on my situation and why I am asking: I started studing Hapkido about 3.5 months ago, and we have started to learn joint manipulations (wrist, elbow, shoulder) from the ground and standing. The main concern that I have is in hurting my fellow students. While I am not a large person, being 5'9" and 190 lbs, I am fairly strong and athletic. Fearing that I would injure my training parnters, I have been tenative in holding pressure to the joints throughout the entire technique. This results in weak techniques. I am following my instructor's advice and slowly increasing the tension as I learn to control my body motions and learn the limits of my partners. I doubt there is a better way, but I was curious as to how other people have handled similar learning experiences.
TangSooGuy Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Generally, it's just practice, and practice with different partners. To start, apply a small amount of pressure, and increase it until they say "Ow" or tap out. That's usually a pretty good indicator. If your partner is hurting, and they don't tap out or sat anything, then part of it is their fault, really. At the same time, I advocate starting with less and building to more pressure. Eventually you just develop a feel for how much to apply based on how they respond. If they don't move, you're not applying enough. If they go crashing to the floor, too much. Talk with your partners. Ask them what they are feeling, and gauge it off of that. Eventually it becomes somewhat instinctual, but you have to be prepared to modify technique and pressure, since it varies from person to person how the lock affects them.
Treebranch Posted October 31, 2003 Posted October 31, 2003 TangSooGuy's advice is very good. I also would like to point out that the pressure illicits a pain response that can be used to control an attacker, depending on the attacker. More importantly joint manipulation works best when you have your opponents balance and you can feel that you are holding them up with that lock and if you were to let go he would fall. If you want to break the wrist, elbow, shoulder joint it is done as a sharp application of the lock when they are falling. I hope this helps. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
ZR440 Posted October 31, 2003 Posted October 31, 2003 Yes, and stay a little looser but maintain good form. You don't have to tighten up all your muscles to perform an effective manipulation. It's happy hour somewhere in the world.
Sorynn Posted October 31, 2003 Author Posted October 31, 2003 Tangsooguy, I was hoping there was something I would read to speed up the learning curve. However, you seem to be verifying my gut feeling when you say, "practice, practice, practice." Cheers! I will more actively pay attention to the balance points of my partners and keeping relaxed. Thanks, Treebranch and ZR440.
TangSooGuy Posted October 31, 2003 Posted October 31, 2003 Some tips, from watching my students: most beginners try to muscle the techniques too much, and they try to perform the locks from too far away from their partner. Keep the locks closer to your body, and as close to your center as possible. Move from your center, not your arms/ shoulders. Also pay close attention to yoir footwork. use the triangle concept- draw two lines in your mind from their bases points (feet) to create a triangle. the point of that triangle is where you want to point your hand andyourself to make the lock most effective. This is hard to explain without being able to demonstrate- hope it makes some sense. It really shouldn't take much pressure at all if you do everything correctly.
Treebranch Posted November 1, 2003 Posted November 1, 2003 TangSooGuy you seem to have a great teacher or else you have studied quite a bit to have such a good understanding. The things you are explaining sound like a foreign language to most people. Glad to see other systems of fighting basically employ the same theories. That's way I have a great respect for all MA's. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Sorynn Posted November 5, 2003 Author Posted November 5, 2003 Some tips, from watching my students: most beginners try to muscle the techniques too much, and they try to perform the locks from too far away from their partner. Keep the locks closer to your body, and as close to your center as possible. Move from your center, not your arms/ shoulders. Also pay close attention to yoir footwork. *nods* Those concepts make complete sense to me. Now, I just have to execute them. use the triangle concept- draw two lines in your mind from their bases points (feet) to create a triangle. the point of that triangle is where you want to point your hand andyourself to make the lock most effective. This is hard to explain without being able to demonstrate- hope it makes some sense. I do not understand this completely. I am trying to visualize it, and I understand using their feet as base points. If the place to point your body is the ending point of the technique, then it seems that you have to already know where the end point is to visualize the triangle. From my confused point of view, it seems that the main benefit of this visualization technique would be to have your entire body lined up properly by understanding the forces in use and the balance points. Am I close?? Thank you for the pointers, I appreciate the input.
Davison Posted December 13, 2003 Posted December 13, 2003 your instuctor should should advise everyone in class that when pain is felt,to simply tap. tap on the mat or on your partners bodyand if your hands are not free to do so,use yor feet. Why punch someone when their on the ground when you can just kick them
Kensai Posted December 21, 2003 Posted December 21, 2003 It would depend on the level of the partner. If I was training with a 1st Kyu or above then give it 100%. They should know there own limitations. For the other grades use your own judgment. If you hear a crack its gone to far.....
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