kata and grappling

[Reklats]

In denial.

[Treebranch]

Yes, I guess we all are.

[Tibby]

Don’t you guys think fighting with a Professional Fighter who does nothing but train all the time is a little different then when fighting a Hobby-Artist or street thug?

Treebranch,

 

You're ranting and not making any sense.

 

The reason that MMA has less injuries than other sports is probably due to less people doing it. More people would play soccer in Australia in one weekend than all the modern MMA competitors ever.

 

Also, it doesn't mean that the fights aren't real because people don't get killed or more seriously injured - it means there are rules and rather than someone hitting their head on a curb after they're knocked out and dying, they hit their head on the mat or fence. Rather than one guy continuing to wail away at the other when he can no longer defend himself, the referee steps in. Rather than one guy destroying his opponent by out-classing him through size or skill, people fight in weight classes and everyone studies basically the same things

 

What in heavens name are you ranting about? I think the post you were replying to make prefect sense. I don’t think you understood, his post was sarcastic. He agrees with you on that last point.

 

Did it ever occur to you that when he said less people get hurt in MMA, he might have been talking proportionately?

 

 

I know for a fact that joint locks works, even if you are standing, coz I tried them

 

But would you be able to get a standing lock on someone who is fully resisting? I'm sure they work in drills during practice.

 

No, genius. He never said you can put a lock on those who are full resisting. You can normally get your opponent into a lock in the direction they are resisting. Most Martial Arts have something called “follow.” You see, when you are trying to lock an arm, if they know what you are doing, they will fight, so you let their arm go the direction they are forcing it, and joint lock them from that position. Basic Martial Arts. White belt stuff. Unless your art doesn’t teach you to fight on your feet, that is.

[Reklats]

He never said you can put a lock on those who are full resisting. You can normally get your opponent into a lock in the direction they are resisting. Most Martial Arts have something called “follow.” You see, when you are trying to lock an arm, if they know what you are doing, they will fight, so you let their arm go the direction they are forcing it, and joint lock them from that position. Basic Martial Arts. White belt stuff. Unless your art doesn’t teach you to fight on your feet, that is.

 

I didn't mean resisting that particular move. I meant resisting in general. I think standing joint locks are great for demos, but if it came to applying them in real life on a hostile person they'd be a very low percentage shot, and therefore not worth doing.

[TJS]

Biased.

 

Absolutly im biased twords the most effective techniques.

 

You still havent come up with a logical answer...

 

If you saying im biased in terms of grappling then you are also wrong, I have dont the same amount if not more judo and TJJ then I have BJJ.

[Tibby]

He never said you can put a lock on those who are full resisting. You can normally get your opponent into a lock in the direction they are resisting. Most Martial Arts have something called “follow.” You see, when you are trying to lock an arm, if they know what you are doing, they will fight, so you let their arm go the direction they are forcing it, and joint lock them from that position. Basic Martial Arts. White belt stuff. Unless your art doesn’t teach you to fight on your feet, that is.

 

I didn't mean resisting that particular move. I meant resisting in general.

 

What? What are you talking about? Resisting in general? The chances of someone being able to fight against your arms without any force in a particular direction is small. The body doesn’t work like that. You can’t resist in all directions at once. You will resist one way or another. And that is where follow comes in.

 

 

I think standing joint locks are great for demos, but if it came to applying them in real life on a hostile person they'd be a very low percentage shot, and therefore not worth doing.

 

Apparently Police, Armed Forces, Self-Defense Experts, Prison guards, and body guards disagree.

[Reklats]

This proves something, actually. Each time you've brought up "resisting" you've defined it in the way it would affect a joint lock drill. To you resisting is pushing in a direction. To me resisting is twisting my hand away when you grab it, or going for a takedown when you stand there trying to think through your follow process. (We don't call it follow, we call it basic human instinct. That way we can save time patting ourselves on the back and tellng each other how deadly we all are.) To someone else it might be elbowing you in the teeth.

 

About the police- If someone is resisting their method seems to be pin and handcuff. Smash them agains a car and handcuff them, or against the ground, and handcuff them with your knee in their back. THe whole point being that immobilizing someone before you try to manipulate them works better. Which is what standing locks don't do.

[Tibby]

This proves something, actually. Each time you've brought up "resisting" you've defined it in the way it would affect a joint lock drill. To you resisting is pushing in a direction. To me resisting is twisting my hand away when you grab it, or going for a takedown when you stand there trying to think through your follow process. (We don't call it follow, we call it basic human instinct. That way we can save time patting ourselves on the back and tellng each other how deadly we all are.) To someone else it might be elbowing you in the teeth.

 

wow, arn't you a smart one. You figured out something every whitebelt should know, everything has a conter. Of course that what someone could do, and some people would do that. Just because something can be countered or reversed doesn't make the move any less effective. If that where the case, NOTHING would be effective. I can just as easily get out of a move on the ground as I can standing.

 

 

About the police- If someone is resisting their method seems to be pin and handcuff. Smash them agains a car and handcuff them, or against the ground, and handcuff them with your knee in their back. THe whole point being that immobilizing someone before you try to manipulate them works better. Which is what standing locks don't do.

 

And we can't smash them into a car because...? If someone ISN'T resisting they will pin them and slap the cuff on them. That is what they do, smart guy. But there are times when they can't get to there handcuffs. What if they are to busy with both hands protecting themselfs from a IV-using brute on PCP? That still doesn't answer why Armed Forces, Self-Defense Experts, Prison guards, and body guards use standing joint locks.

[Reklats]

everything has a conter. Of course that what someone could do, and some people would do that. Just because something can be countered or reversed doesn't make the move any less effective.

 

Some moves can be countered in more ways, and the counters are easier. That makes them less effective. I think trying locks standing gives the person more ways out.

And we can't smash them into a car because...?

 

So you admit my point. I was saying that a car would be a substitute for the ground. You agree that you'd rather do a lock against a car than freestanding, then why wouldn't you rather do a lock against the ground than freestanding?

If someone ISN'T resisting they will pin them and slap the cuff on them. That is what they do, smart guy. But there are times when they can't get to there handcuffs. What if they are to busy with both hands protecting themselfs from a IV-using brute on PCP? That still doesn't answer why Armed Forces, Self-Defense Experts, Prison guards, and body guards use standing joint locks.

 

This makes too little sense for me to agree with or refute. What makes you an expert on the tactics used by all these professions anyway?

[Hohan-1]

I didn't mean resisting that particular move. I meant resisting in general. I think standing joint locks are great for demos, but if it came to applying them in real life on a hostile person they'd be a very low percentage shot, and therefore not worth doing.

 

Are you sure that you do GJJ? You better tell Helio that his SD techs don't work. That is the bread and butter of GJJ. He's said it himself as has Rorion. The majority of GJJ students do the sport wrasslin' version. It keeps things interesting for the common folk, with all the fun competing and trophies and such. You must roll with the entire class... If you take privates at Gracie-Torrance with Ryron you would concentrate on the Self Defense aspects of GJJ which include standing arm bars and wrist locks. Being a GJJ practitoner you know this though, right?

 

So many people are into a system and just take people's words for things. You aren't the Gracies, will never be the Machados, so don't think that it will work (for you) against a determined person who is fast and large and exhibits a killer mind-set. If you've ever fought for real then you know this- 99% of fights begin on your feet. Keep it there. Learn all ranges and try to learn to stay on your feet in the street. A good sprawl will stop many an attempted shoot or leg takedown. Getting kneed, kicked or uppercutted after your failed attempt or during the attempt is quite commonplace, even in NHB comps nowadays.

 

GJJ has been let out of the bag. No more surprises. It is a good thing to be familiar with, but it is only a limited fix for the entropy of a real conflict. It brought fame and fortune to the Gracie's at the expense of divulging the "secret" of their element of surprise. It such a unique art it really is a shame.

 

Striking works better for real fighting. The problem is that most striking arts are crap, as are their principles, their teachers and their intent. At least with GJJ you get a method which has undergone strict rigors to make it effective as a submission wrestling form, and the majority of its BBs are more than qualified to teach it.. Respect to the Gracies, but nothing is a panacea, especially if it's limited in its scope.

 

I can twist you like a pretsel, throw you by your neck so that you land on the side of your skull, while striking you the entire time from many angles. I can make standing locks and bars work. That includes catch-kicks into ankle and knee locks. Whatever it takes bro. There is so much folks just don't, won't or can't know. Truth be told...