French Cane

[kle1n]

i totally agree with you Jussi Häkkinen

[TomanGaidin]

There are a good number of political reasons why the French didn't support the US; it's not so much a matter of not agreeing with the war, nor is it a matter of gratitude - though I do agree that being saved by one country in a conflict should not mean an automatic 'subscription' to future conflict. Badly worded, but I can't be bothered re-wording it ;p.

 

But that's getting off-topic. Anyone have some more info regarding french cane..? Primary principles, fighting distance, striking/locks/throwing or grappling, etc?

[hajime]

and in the UK one of the? biggest demonstrations ever was held against the war.

 

the Prime Minister isn't exactly poplular.

 

I agree with the French position on this one.

 

I won't stereotype them anymore than I will a yank

[Shorinryu Sensei]

It's called "supporting your allies and friends." God knows, when the French needed help, the USA was there for them with our industrys, money..and blood.

[Warp Spider]

It's called "supporting your allies and friends." God knows, when the French needed help, the USA was there for them with our industrys, money..and blood.

 

Dude, the French aren't cowards because they surrendered in World War II. Or did you not realize that they fought so hard in World War I that they didn't have hardly any men left in their country, and thus could not raise an army for WWII?

 

Also, in case you didn't notice, France isn't the only country that didn't help you in Iraq. In fact, the vast majority of the world didn't, because frankly, the vast majority of the world doesn't really care that Saddam gassed a bunch of people. (who were trying to overthrow the country, BTW, that gets you the death penalty in the US too) They also don't really care that he may be somehow related to terrorists, who may be in some way related to the terrorists who are suspected of killing 4000 Americans on one distinct occasion. (For comparison, 12000 people die of starvation every day, but I don't see you going on a crusade against people who overeat.)

 

So in other words, people who didn't join the American's little "crusade" against terrorism aren't cowardly, they just don't care enough to trash their economy and send their country into a downward flaming spiral.

[Drunken Monkey]

i'm not going to say that i'm totally against the war because i feel that something had to be done.

 

however, the way events unfolded does not leave a good example to the rest of the world.

 

if you are going to act the hero then i think you should follow all of the rules to the letter.

 

as it turns out, our respective governments might have lied to us (or perhaps they were lied to), in order to validate the need to go to war immediately. would it really have made a difference if they had waited another two weeks?

 

either way, it's not that much different to the way dictators rally support: feed your people lies.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

So in other words, people who didn't join the American's little "crusade" against terrorism aren't cowardly, they just don't care enough to trash their economy and send their country into a downward flaming spiral.

 

There's a movement afoot in this country to quit sending American dollars, which I, and every other hard working American pays in taxes every year, to other countries to feed them, build them schools and hospitals, roads and to bolster their economy. Also, to withdraw our troops from Europe, the Middle East and every place else except within our own borders, and use out own money to fix our own problems. I fully support this movement and would like to see the USA become neutral like Switzerland and worry about ourselves, and not the rest of the world.

 

When/if we do something like this, which I'm sure we won't, then you'd be seeing in a short time, pompous dictators like Saddam attacking smaller neighbors, like Kuwait..and then another...and another, and before you know it, you'd have little Hitler's running all over the world killing millions and MILLIONS of your little starving Africans (or whereever) with toxic gasses, possibly nuclear weapons and God knows what else!

 

Nobody else in the world (including you apparently) seem to care if these little dictators kill their own people as a stepping stone to killing their neighbors.

 

If Saddam was allowed to take Kuwait without little opposition (as Hitler did with Poland) back in the first Gulf War and nobody jumped in and said stop, by now he would also have Saudi Arabia and how many more of his neighbors? Where would he stop? Could the Saudis stop him? Nope, their Army isn't much as I understand it. Hitler did the same, exact thing.

 

Warp Spider, your profile doesn't say what country you are in, but I'd suspect that the good 'ol US of A is tossing tons of American dollars (some of which is mine) into your country for whatever reason. What would happen if we quit doing that? I don't see one single country in this world sending any money our way to help out my country, do you?

 

Are you in France, Germany or England..anywhere in Europe? What if we decided to pull our troups out of there back in the 1960-70's? You'd be speaking RUSSIAN right now and eating borst. (actually, borst is pretty good!)

 

Personally, I'm very tired of Americans being trashed for what we do in other countries. I'd really like to see how the rest of the world could SUPPORT ITSELF for a change, bring all of our boys back home and place a really high wall around our borders with a big sign...KEEP THE F**K OUT!!!, and unless you had PROOF of US citizenship, or PROOF of legitimate business in this country, then you would be denied admission.

 

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"? That's waht it says on the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor.

 

Fine, not any more! We have plenty of cab drivers and MidiMart employees to last us until eternity already..we don't need anymore, so STAY HOME!!! We have the technology, the brains, the manpower AND the resourses to be self-sufficient for many, many years to come if we want to. We have strong neighbors (Thanks Canada and Mexico) that we trust, and that support us, and as I see it...we just don't need a whole lot more tennis shoes made cheaply in Taiwan, or oil, or food, or cars..or much else that we can't do ourselves.

 

Geeze...I've got to apoligise to anybody reading this, but I'm a damn proud Vietnam Era Veteren and American that is extremely proud of this country (Yes, there is a large flag flying off my front porch), and it just drives me nuts to watch the news and see these countries protesting our involvment in their countries when they can't help themselves, burning our flags, attacking our embassys, etc after all that we have done to support them!

 

ENOUGH!

[Drunken Monkey]

funny you should mention vietnam.

 

just why were the americans there again...?

 

as for the americans winning world war war two...

 

right.

 

i'm sure the invention of radar and deciphering of enigma had absolutely nothing to do with it...

[Shorinryu Sensei]

funny you should mention vietnam.

 

just why were the americans there again...?

 

Well, I'm not going to argue about Vietnam..that wasn't a pretty picture, and the reason we failed was because we didn't approach it correctly and use all of the resourses that were available to us. No, not "the bomb", but we piddle farted around to much and didn't take it as seriously as we should have. A large part of that was the fear that if we really, and seriously went in to Vietnam to clean house, the Chinese, who were supporting the N. Vietnamese, would do the same, and the whole thing would have escalated well beyond Vietnam, and possible escalate into WWIII. Why we initionally went into Vietnam, by the way, was because the FRENCH were getting their rear ends kicked (what, again?) and we went in to support our allies (what, again?). Something apparently they won't do in return.

as for the americans winning world war war two...

 

right. i'm sure the invention of radar and deciphering of enigma had absolutely nothing to do with it...

 

Granted, the victory in Europe was a JOINT EFFORT of the allies, not an exclusive victory by the United States alone, nor did I mean to imply that. But without Amercia's men, our industrial machine and yes, dollars..I believe that you would be speaking in German right now instead of English.

 

*sigh*..prior to America entering the European theater, I wouldn't say that Europe, specifically England since that's where you're from, was doing very well on their own once France had fallen (again) to the German war machine. Or can you dispute that? Can you deny that once France had fallen and the Germans were looking through their field glasses at England some 20-odd miles away (not sure exactly, but not VERY far), that Winston and your family weren't just a wee bit concerned?

 

Am I wrong? Can you support otherwise?

 

I have no beef with the UK..they stepped up like men and supported their friends and allies in the US. Whether or not we were justified in attacking Iraq, that's for our governments to worry about. Personally, I feel that we will eventually find some weapons of mass destruction, or find proof that they were trying to develop them..possibly even that they were smuggled out of the country.

 

If not, it wouldn't be the first time that information was misinterprated, but I do agree that we were right in getting Saddam out of power by whatever means was necessary. I wish we were able to do that the first time we went in there, but following the UN mandate, we were not allowed to. Then this 2nd war over there would not have been necessary.

[Drunken Monkey]

well, i specifically mentioned the radr and enigma because as you are well aware, they are both british achievments.

 

and as you say, it was a joint effort.

 

but if i take a slightly biased view, without those two things it doesn't matter how many men , how much money or how many machines you send over, it would've been a much different war.

 

as for me, i've always wondered they insisted on talking about the new u.n mandates when saddam was in breach of the old ones...