Shorinryu Sensei Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Sorry - don't see any 'point' to point sparring. has nothing to do with basics or kumite and does not prepare one for a real fight, actually causes harm to ones ability to perform well in a real situaution. Can you see the old masters of 100 years ago doing point sparring??? I didn't think so ..... I disagree. With full contact sparring, I've seen many people forget defense entirely and just dive in and start windmilling punches and tossing crappy kicks to try to just beat through their opponents defense. With point sparring, finesse, speed and accuracy are very important. It also teaches students how to block, parry, move, counter, look for openings, is great exercise..and I think, just plain FUN! It's also a great way for a student to practice their techniques in a relatively safe and semi-realistic exercise. Yes, I agree that if ALL you do is point spar, that's not good and will teach bad habits. But I feel that it has its place in training, especially for the lower belts, but after nearly 29 years in the art myself, I find point sparring quite invigorating and keeps my body loose, relaxed and fast. My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLove Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I disagree. With full contact sparring, I've seen many people forget defense entirely and just dive in and start windmilling punches and tossing crappy kicks to try to just beat through their opponents defenseRule 1: If it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. If winmilling is a bad strategy in a figt (it is) then full contact sparring is the best way to find that out. Trying to beat through defenses and taking a pounding for your trouble seems like a good way to learn.With point sparring, finesse, speed and accuracy are very important. It also teaches students how to block, parry, move, counter, look for openings And full contact fails to do that how? We are trying to learn to fight, yes? If we can't do it against someone charging in, then we can't do it at all. https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorinryu Sensei Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Rule 1: If it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. I disagree with that. What works once against one guy, may not work with the next. The martial arts teaches you strategy and how to look for and utilize your opponents weaknesses to your advantage.If winmilling is a bad strategy in a figt (it is) then full contact sparring is the best way to find that out. Trying to beat through defenses and taking a pounding for your trouble seems like a good way to learn. The problem with full contact sparring is that you are wearing enough padding so that you know you're not really going to get hurt very bad if you do get hit. with that knowledge, I've seen technique get tossed out the window and it becomes a slugfest of crappy technique.With point sparring, finesse, speed and accuracy are very important. It also teaches students how to block, parry, move, counter, look for openings And full contact fails to do that how? We are trying to learn to fight, yes? If we can't do it against someone charging in, then we can't do it at all. In full contact, you can pretty much forget finesse, and a lot of accuracy. speed is still there, but as I said above, because youy are well protected, defense goes by the wayside and it's pretty much pure aggression and sloppy techniques just to get in first and rattle your opponent. My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLove Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I disagree with that. What works once against one guy, may not work with the next.I never said it did. "Works vs one person" does not equate to "works". The martial arts teaches you strategy and how to look for and utilize your opponents weaknesses to your advantage. That's a means, not an end. Martial arts teach you to survive encounters.The problem with full contact sparring is that you are wearing enough padding so that you know you're not really going to get hurt very bad if you do get hit. That's a different complaint than the one offered.with that knowledge, I've seen technique get tossed out the window and it becomes a slugfest of crappy technique. And I've watched similar happen in real fights. You need to be able to deal with that tactic regardless. Now, if your argument is that "he charged in swinging, and would have been taken down but for the pads", that's a different discussion.In full contact, you can pretty much forget finesse, and a lot of accuracy. speed is still there, but as I said above, because youy are well protected, defense goes by the wayside and it's pretty much pure aggression and sloppy techniques just to get in first and rattle your opponent. And you think that without the padding (IOW in a fight) this would fail how? https://www.clearsilat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 All 3 are good forms of training. I agree. "Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to go to his class." Choi, Hong Hi ITF Founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBN Doug Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Sorry - don't see any 'point' to point sparring. has nothing to do with basics or kumite and does not prepare one for a real fight, actually causes harm to ones ability to perform well in a real situaution. Can you see the old masters of 100 years ago doing point sparring??? I didn't think so ..... In my teaching experience, it has a lot to do with the basics. No, it has nothing to do with kumite, and it won't prepare you on its own for a real fight. What it will do is provide a starting point from which a great number of people can practice being in a fight, without being in a "full" fight. Perhaps in your art, students come in and sign up with the frame of mind that they have no problem going full contact right from the beginning. However, there are a great number of people, taking a wide range of arts, that have to work their way up to full contact, and point sparring is a good starting point. Kuk Sool Won - 4th danEvil triumphs when good men do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goju1 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Sorry - don't see any 'point' to point sparring. has nothing to do with basics or kumite and does not prepare one for a real fight, actually causes harm to ones ability to perform well in a real situaution. Can you see the old masters of 100 years ago doing point sparring??? I didn't think so ..... In my teaching experience, it has a lot to do with the basics. No, it has nothing to do with kumite, and it won't prepare you on its own for a real fight. What it will do is provide a starting point from which a great number of people can practice being in a fight, without being in a "full" fight. Perhaps in your art, students come in and sign up with the frame of mind that they have no problem going full contact right from the beginning. However, there are a great number of people, taking a wide range of arts, that have to work their way up to full contact, and point sparring is a good starting point. I suppose its ok for some, but I would still maintain that point sparring teaches bad habits. The limited areas of contact, the pulled punches and kicks, etc.. are not realistic. I would rather have students spar realistically, but with slow speed, or practice the one or two point sparring techniques safely at full speed without contact first, then allow them to progress to full speed full power if they desire. With all due respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martial_Artist Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 From my meager experience, I'm going to have to say that full-contact, when done properly, requires an excessive amount of finesse. I've been doing full-contact most of my martial-arts life. It is finesse, from my experience, that wins the fight. Blocking, parrying, moving, countering are all best applied and seen when done with an opponent who is not restrained. To win in full-contact you must be accurate. Otherwise, what an inefficient waste of energy your attacks will be. What point is there in throwing the attack if it is not done with purpose? I'm sure, for the goals of certain martial artists, point sparring has its place and can be a tool used within a classroom. As KSNDoug put, I can see it being an adequate place to learn the basics. I prefer full-contact over all other types. Beginners need padding, but they also need to train with less padding. Injury is a possibility and more often than not someone gets a bruise or bloodied face. But these results are trivial in the pursuit of the end goal. However, like I mentioned earlier, that is all relevant to the goals of the martial artist. MA Nominate in the Karateforums.com Awards "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hajime Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 [quote name="I prefer full-contact over all other types. Beginners need padding' date=' but they also need to train with less padding. Injury is a possibility and more often than not someone gets a bruise or bloodied face. But these results are trivial in the pursuit of the end goal. However, like I mentioned earlier, that is all relevant to the goals of the martial artist. MA Nominate in the Karateforums.com Awards respect to you but I'm ugly enough without more hits to my lovely face! Anyway no one hit me in the face (ok just a couple of times) because I always kept my guard up when we sparred 700 hours of official training. Injury finished me dammit!1st Kyu Wado Ryu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBN Doug Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 However, there are a great number of people, taking a wide range of arts, that have to work their way up to full contact, and point sparring is a good starting point. Just wanted to emphasize, in case anyone mistakenly thought I meant that point sparring was all I would ever have them do. Kuk Sool Won - 4th danEvil triumphs when good men do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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