tengu-raven

the idea of being extremely well-rounded is great in theory. over time a person might have the chance to do something like karate and judo then aikido with escrima to cover all the bases. yet how much can the average person really learn and practice enough to become familiar with? during the week i usually spend about 10 hours a day at work. my efforts are directed toward 6 hours of sleep. there 16 hours of the day is already gone. that does'nt count driving or getting ready for work. then most of us have obligations around the house. mowing the yard or washing dishes for example. with family additional time should be directed there. the end result being that not to many hours exist in a day for martial arts training to begin with. most of us have jobs that have nothing directly related to developing martial skill. not to mention conditioning training is sometimes different than specific style training. how does the majority with those time constrictions expect to learn a great deal of material much less practice most of it? the best i can do is practice a few skills a great deal and learn more over time. the illusion of being an expert in every area is just that as we are'nt by and large professional fighters or martial artists in some other context. over time i hope to learn a great many things about martial arts. yet i would rather be good at 10 techniques than know 50 that i could'nt use very well.

what i really consider the most feasable route for training in different styles yet still learning something is like this. first pick a core style. something that you want to learn the most and will stick with throughout. granted relocating for the job or recognizing a desire to learn something else might change the main choice of what style is learned yet there need be few changes. without long-term study and practice the dept of a style will never be realized. after having spent time becoming familiar with your primary style at least in the sense of practicing basics then you might or not consider learning another style. the difficulty for me was not sacrificing time for shotokan classes and practice while finding time for learning something new. here is where a person has to ask why they want to learn something different to begin with. sometimes i hear students talk about wanting to learn joint locks from aikido or throws from judo. there's a world of difference between wanting to expand your knowledge on an area that karate does'nt emphasise so much as opposed to not knowing karate has joint locks and throws to begin with. look at what your style has before looking elsewhere for the same material. if a student does recognize they want a deeper base of throws and chokes for example then judo might fit the bill. the same goes for the joint locks and movement of aikido. there just needs to be some balance as to how the practice is divided. if a person likes judo or aikido that much better maybe they would move to that style. then again maybe just having a range of skills is desired. what i've usually done is learn specific aspects of different styles that might enhance my karate. that's not the same as learning shotokan and judo and aikido. just spending time learning something valuable that might give me a few extra tools or preferably teach me how to use the same tools in shotokan differently. for example there are seven basic throws in shotokan. learning a little judo or a lot if you prefer might teach someone a few similar throws. the same with joint locks. lately i've looked into a couple of linear chinese styles to examine variations on linear attack.

have any of those students that wear colorfull uniforms ever thought to ask why that most dojo wear the plain white? except for the patch that indicates the style of shotokan and the color of belt our gis are completly white and no other patches. the gi being white represents purity and the mindset of someone willing to learn. it also demonstrates being part of a group. adding patches takes away from both. the uniforms worn at the local dojang sound very much like what has been described. lots of patches reading black belt or expert with some kind of weapon. pretitious from our view. that's not a slight against taekwondo as my prior instructor would have never allowed such a thing. what i don't have a problem with is different uniforms for other styles. the gi worn in the tang soo do dojang i visited was slightly different yet did not have those fancy trappings. it just was the gi worn by students of tang soo do or so i was told. the local kenpo dojo wears a black gi with no patches and i have no issue there either. another interesting subject was the thickness of the gi in question. during the summer a heaver weave gi is very uncomfortable yet far more durable than our lighter ones. fortunatly the sensei likes to keep the dojo very cool and without shoes it's not too bad. even though we don't throw with the frequency of a judo class there is a lot of technique which proves hard on the light versions.

what an excellent post! over the years i've seen numerous students come and go at the dojo. the younger ones divide thier time between karate and sports during the seasons they participate in the later. thier progress suffers yet they often fail to understand why. not that i have any negative things to say about sports or the participation therof. yet one should not expect to have a number of intrests and do well spending little time in practice of a single area. the adult students are no different. between job and home responsibilities taking any martial art classes proves difficult. yet the mentality of learning a number of styles remains. the idea of being a well-rounded fighter has it's merits yet not developing skill in any area is a common problem. although i have trained in different styles there is a strong base and long-term commitment. besides good karate has a lot to offer when enrolled in a good dojo. before looking somewhere else students might benifit to learn what the style they already learn has to offer. thank you for expressing that a year or two does not qualify one to have learned a martial art. we have a former shorin-ryu stylist that picked up shotokan quickly yet the background was already there. some former taekwondo helped me learn a little faster. yet learning in a couple of years is exactly the reason for a number of studetnts claiming to know a martial art without understanding even the basics. what they often think of shotokan as is blocks and strikes. the buffet martial arts mentality is alive and well here. in fact seems to grow every year. there's nothing wrong with long-term training in different styles yet the style of the month routine is nonsense.

Principles are important, but at some point you must say "using the principles found within this sequence of movements we can defend against . The balance between teaching principles and being 2 specific is important. we agree that some practical examples of the principles are neccesary and should be learned. my concern there is the when the opponent does this you do that mentality. too much learning a specific counter for a specific attack. what happens to a student when faced with an attack they have never been trained a counter for? there is the very heart of problems in many dojo. there are nuances to any technique like gedan barrai mentioned here. it's not just a blocking motion or just to defend against mai geri. yet that's exactly how it gets taught in many dojo. the principle should be taught first with several examples not just one attack=one defense.

granted many dojo have taught karate as you described with only blocks and strikes. there's no argument here of karate having a lot more dept than less than qualified sensei have introduced to students. hence the poor quality of instruction and current impression of karate held by many these days. the example of using gedan barrai against mai geri might be a little deeper than it's a good or bad idea. the application we use in shotokan is to step offline and use the gedan barrai to deflect and grab the kicking leg of the opponent. yet i've often heard the application was originally to strike the ankle of the opponent kicking leg with backfist. the latter does'nt seem any more feasable than just attempting to block an incoming front kick or most kicks for that matter. my initial thought would be that's a good route to a broken arm. yet i've been in some bad spots where it was neccesary to use blocking movements. just a month back we had a student block an incoming side kick and the other student ended up with a broken foot.

the founder of shotokan did a little research on dim-mak back in his day and funakoshi dismissed those claims. thus far i'd have to agree. sure there are pressure points yet even that's not a sure thing. far as the death-touch? a well delivered blow could have potential for such a thing yet i would'nt count on that.

there i'd have to disagree with learning specific attack/defenses as learning the principle gives the student options of how to use the same material in different ways.

for a moment there i thought you were a shotokan stylist. we use that school of thought. straight forward attacks and continued pressure is a preferece in our dojo.

the rbsd styles that i've seen did'nt impress me that much in the way of teaching revolutionary material. most of what i saw resembled basics that are taught in any number of martial art styles. the selling point of rsbd appears to be cutting out a lot of material that is not effective and/or reflects tradition. which i suppose is subjective. the end result is supposed to be faster learning. many other aspects from martial arts are lost when thinking strictly in terms of fighting. having functional ability is the most important yet more traditional styles offer so much in addition.

there's a little concern on my part about what you mean by the teacher is not strict. how lenient are we talking about? in terms of perfoming the material and grading? we have the option for cross-training in jujutsu at the shotokan dojo that i attend. the instructor has a good background in both and encourages as much. still i think it only respectfull that you ask permission first. which reflects a commitment to what you already practice.

the itf style of taekwondo looks far more like shotokan in respect to kata as the koreans built from japanese martial arts. there are some major differences in technique and emphasis yet the similarities are obvious as you pointed out. recently i visited a tang soo do school (not sure about proper term) and was amazed how much it resembled shotokan. from what i could tell it used shotokan kata almost exactly with the exception of the arrangment of the kata. although i'm a purist when it comes to maintaining a martial art style there are different ways of using the same kind of techniques and the exploration might lead to improvements for the use of the individual practitioner. during the past few years i've been checking out a couple of chinese styles that have karate-like characteristics. both xing-yi and wing chun favor linear movement and using the fist. who knows how that might change my practice of martial arts. just not in shotokan class.

there does seem to be something behind the suggestion you made about rivals existing between shotokan and okinawan styles. the first problem is that i hear the europeans have made subtle changes to how they practice shotokan. which does'nt go over so well with the other dojos that are purists. hence a rivalry in shotokan itself. and i keep hearing more dojos talk about bunkai while many japanese sensei are inclined to dismiss the idea. the second problem is that japanese and okinawan dojos appear to have different views of various karate branches not just shotokan. last time i visited japan there was some mention of two different styles of goju-ryu. from what i was told the japanese style is the original while myagi had incorporated softer chinese material later. the only view i heard was from the japanese side and the okinawans might have a different perspective there. the third problem is there seems to be a difference between the emphasis of material. from what i've seen the okinawans seem to grab more while the japanese perfer to just block. while on that subject the okinawans use a lot of circular blocks while some japanese go with the stopping harder variety. the hand techniques are more open in okinawan dojos while the japanese use more of the fist. and the footwork of okinawan styles is more about mobility than japanese dojos. that's my impression from having watched both japanese and okinawan karate before. last i'm curious why you don't think any competition would exist between shotokan and okinawan karate? not looking for an arguement just wondering.

there is a dojo here in ky which teaches the style you have mentioned. the material looks okinawan yet i also have suspisions about the authenticity. no one i have spoken to outside that particular dojo has ever heard of it before and that includes those i spoke to while visiting japan which seem a little strange. another comment here that i agreed with is the style looks to be a mixture of some kind. although some people downplay the importance of lineage one distinct trait is that sometimes a reliable source can help sort out frauds in the martial arts. there are hundreds if not more stlyes that have been thrown together so id recommend student beware. although im not suggesting fraud in this case might not hurt to do some research first.

the advantages of learning a form are numerous. such as learning proper technique and putting all the material together. kata to be specific offer stretching and some degree of isometric excersise. the effort ot learn and do kata is essential to karate. the greatest disadvantages are that some dojo focus too much on kata and little else. also there are too many dojo which dont teach or know the bunkai therof. then you have schools of whatever martial art with very low standards. not learning kata properly in terms of application and proper form is a waste of time. far as naysayers go i would recall the words of master funakoshi that practice of kata should be exact yet combat is a different matter. the kata are like a book the application is what you take in harms way.