KungFuLuvva

i know it works becuase my dad has crushed a sternum b4. it can work on anyone, static or not, scary isnt it?

i'd have to say that there really is a lot of bad wing chun out there, you sound like an experianced fighter, and your sifu probably never actually put his wing chun into use.

siufeifei, you completely misunderstood me...once your on the ground of course he can assert control, i meant while the fight is still standing, theres not going to be a way to get an experianced WC on the ground without taking some substantial damage from elbows and knees. "How effective are your knees when I'm pressed against you smothering all space? how effective are knees and elbows when I am controlling your balance? " let's not forget that WC is the master of close distance, so theres going to be that moment when you enter my space, grab a part of my body, and your going to get punished with other parts of my body, now mind you i did say its all about the "instant hits" so yes...if i wait to long to hit or try to play your game by getting you into a headlock or grabbing you back, then i will be in your domain. But i can gaurantee that b4 you can assess full control, something really bad will happen to you, whether it be an axe elbow to the back of the head or a short distance centerline punch to crush your sternum, or if its necesarry thumbs in the eyes. i did that once in 8th grade when i hesisitated on hitting a grappler that had me pinned against a fence. his head loosened up slightly when he tried to back it away, so i slammed it on my knee. Mind you that he was twice my size and almost broke my hand in an arm wrestling match we had a few weeks before that. i was a very bad fighter back then and yet he was considered one the most powerful kids in my school and all he mostly did was wrestle against kids. With what i know now, i would laugh if someone tried to grab me, theres just many things i can do as long as i do it instantly. lets also not forget that even if you didnt want to hit him, hapkido moves are great for if someone lays there hands on you, but as is the same with those, if not performed instantly, the grapplers gets his chance to control you. personally i think an aikido master would make those big UFC grapplers look like clowns. and as far as grappling being a primary resort...well, i just dont think you can bet your life on it. taking someone to the ground just has to many variables involved. For practicality purposes, imagine being in a brawl in the alley behind a bar, broken glass...ripped up concrete... you know what it looks like. Aside from that, why would you put yourself in the position where your so blind as to what's happening around you. What if you dont have the kind of time to work the guy in? you want to finish the fight as quickly as possible. What if police are comming and the other guy is to drunk to hear the sirens so you have keep working him in, and by that time...who cares who wins the fight?? you both lose. Also you may not realize this but running and fighting go together when your fighting multiple people. i know there just movies but when have you seen jackie chan run from a mob and then turn around to start wrestling people. its not just because it doesnt look flashy, its also because it doesnt work! there was this older guy in my class whose been there for a couple of years, he's a mall secrurity. 3 guys tried to rob a jewelery store after the mall closed down. he took all three of them, not because he was better than all 3 of them combined, but because he was better than them individually and was a smart fighter. you have to hit and run, its the only way. engage one or two with a few combos, then change direction, use your environment. i just dont understand why pple feel so comfortable that they're only going to have one on one fights their whole lives. if you want practical urban combat skills, grappling cannot be your primary ability. and no...not everyone carries a gun in cities...every loaded bullet found in the gun is another 7 years.

i've read something about how to avoid an attacking dog, if i find it i'll post it here. i think it said that your not suppose to feel fear, they will always know if your afraid, so maybe try to think of something else? also when you pass them by, dont look back. one time me and my friend passed by this really annoying yapping little dog, so my friend gathered up a giant wad of spit and just plastered the little thing's face, it instantly stopped barking and never really barked at us again...

i'd say that boxing depends more on individual style, especially when compared to MA's, boxers come in more variety of tactics and strategy. you have your more static boxers that keep kind of flat footed, while you have your more muhhamed ali style boxers that are extremely mobile, and can be very smart fighters. i'd say kyokushin would easily beat boxers that stay flat footed, but against someone that can really move well...i'd give them equal chances.

i guess you all forgot the weakest bone in the body The sternum! that bone right in the center, going up and down your chest. it only takes 30 pounds of pressure to snap like a twig, no matter how big you are because muscle can never cover it! the throat and eyes are just as good, and knees are next best

There is this dinosaur rot wiler living at teh corner of my block that i have to pass by everyday. It's the scariest dog i've ever seen in my life, and i dont think many people would be able to handle it if it decided to jump over the 4 and half foot fence. i've seen 2 stray rots attack a dog that was being walked by its owner near a park. 2 grown men were beating the rots with bats, and they just wouldnt let go of the pet dog. finally some guy came in his car and was trying to run the dogs over. the rots wouldnt even attack the guys for some strange reason. in the end, i think all 3 dogs ended up dead. but to those that think they can outmenouver a dog...thats just rediculous, they are very smart fighters. i think certain dogs should be illegal in big cities, but a police officer back in my grade school gave us a live demonstration of how there dogs take down criminals, running will never work, but i think if you can relax while your being attacked by a trained dog like that, it wont hurt you because your not resisting or pulling away. thats what he showed us anyway...

But there are big differences in the way different lineages tend to teach. IMO lineage is an important factor for Wing Chun, i'm not saying that every Yip Instructor is good but a good background always helps. I've heard of some of the other lineages changing or ignoring things in the form...i would just be careful of who your learning from, even though bad wing chun is still probably going to be effective, and your area may not always provide what you want. I live right in the middle of Chicago and there's probably only a few schools in the entire city.

kickbox, your obvious lack of knowledge about basic wing chun principles is disgusting, you should look into something before you make rediculous statements like that. go to http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/videos.html , theres 3 pages of clips, and if you knew anything about wing chun, you would know that a hook would be close to suicide against a good wing chun practitioner. Btw, about the UFC, i've seen the supposed "Wing Chun" people....but if they didnt tell me that i would've never even guessed. they had there backs slunched over and fought like any other UFC monkey. UFC MMA's are a breed of there own, its a lie if they tell you someone from a legit kung fu style is fighting. i have a clip downloaded of a "Wing Chun" person fighting in UFC, he was so bulky that he couldnt even move, not one single WC move in the whole fight. Real GM's of kung fu styles will not go into leagues like UFC because the moves are to dangerous and easily do permanent damage. That's why there's no Wing Chun tournaments, its a deadly art made to kill, not for sporting on tv. theres a big difference.

wow good point with the whole taking control of the kitchen, they probably do move with more confidence in there environment, but i do know what scottnshelly is talking about, you do get that martial arts aura about people sometimes. i agree with siufeifei, just dont have it in mind when you talk to them.

Edit

true true, it takes experiance, something i admit i dont have much of, so i'm sure i'd go down to very very experianced grapplers. but if someone like me, wihtout much experiance, can take seasoned wrestlers like that...someone wiht a good 5 years of WC should be able to handle most grappling scenerios. it might be easier said than done, but the idea that all 4 limbs cannot be controlled is still very true, like i said b4 tho, its all about that instant hit, if your a striker, keep hitting...how many elbows and knees can the guy take in a clinch? i dont think using grappling as your primary resort is worthwhile. like i said in another subject, grappling should be the absolute last resort weopon in your arsenal, its like comparing your M-16 to the knife hidden in your boot. if it gets to that extreme point, you never know when you may need it.

i'd go with boxing for sure, but like Infrazael said, kyokushin stands a good chance simply because they fight as much, i consider it a much higher regard than other karates. someone who was a good friend of mine is 2nd degree black belt in shotokan, his dad is an 8th dan GM, and he's been taking it all of his life. my other friend who was only in kyokoshin for only a couple of years, (same height, just a bit stronger) trashed him. boxing seems a more evolved... unpredictable way of fighting compared to conventional karate, the foot work makes all the difference.

thats pretty much what i was getting at, staying on your centerline is pretty much the most basic idea wing chun, if its left open, just pile drive it through

not to offend anyone, but in my experiance, karate/tkd punches are MUCH MUCH easier for me to pick apart, move in, and destroy than wild, untrained attacks due to there nature. i mean the whole wild flailing thing may seem rediculous to us, but its actually an awesome question if i think about it, because im pretty sure that about 90 percent of the kids at my school would do that from the fights that i've seen. i asked my sifu what do you do when someone comes really crowded at you, he gave a very simple answer that works for me, just stay on your center line, and chain punch through, the punches often act as blocks, and once your in there, you should be able to finish him. if the fight goes on, he'll definately settle down and stop comming at you like that. getting off the subject a little...fights at my school are hilarious, i've seen some guy beat the crap out of someone in a lunch room because he thought that he stole his bacon, i've even seen a riot escalade out of a game of UNO.

i've studied some UFC tapes before, the problem that the good strikers have in there, is that the second they get clinched, they get scared and try to go for a headlock, or just grab some part of the body. the key is to just keep hitting. i've had a couple of wrestlers/grapplers try to fight be b4...when they go in for the kill, all they got was a nice axe eblow to the back of the head, and knees to ribs, i didnt go for any grabbing. wrestlers get a hold of a limb and work you in, very deadly once they get a hold of you, however, they cant control all 4 of you limbs at once, meaning you can always hit. thats pretty much the jist of wing chun defense of grapplers....they grab an arm, just kick in there knees and punch with your other arm, sounds simple but its so true, all about instant hits. now i know once sum1 gets a good grip on you, it can be hard to do that, but you can kind of look at that like a missed block, wut happens when you miss a block? you get punished. also wc punches work with just as much pwer when your flat on your back, do to the physics of it. so all in all. i'd have to say...if they can handle even one single good elbow or knee to head from me without being phazed, then they deserve to beat me, and i have no business fighting someone that invincible. but i would mayb put in a little grappling for a surprise tackle, i mean...u never know.

my dad's old sifu, stevie lee swift, was one of bill's best students and was even champion of his weight class, however, he sparred with simon lau, a wing chun GM in hong kong, and got trashed after only seconds. thats when he completely abondoned wallace's methods and took up wing chun. he said that he could easily take his old teachers in their prime, directly refering to bill wallace, and its not like he never sparred with the guy. today he is one of wing chun's elite fighters. so i dont know if i'd buy into wallace so quickly, i guess he was good for kickboxing... https://www.swiftwingchun.org

i believe just the opposite actually...in grappling theres always going to be that big heavy set guy you just will never be able to manhandle, on the other hand...no matter how big the guy is, a good centerline punch to the sternum will implode any guy's chest with just 30 pounds of pressure, no matter how much he's ever weight lifted, because no muscle will ever cover that bone....not to mention knee caps, i would go with 95 percent strking and 5 percent ground. they have addition bjj classes at my wing chun place now, ground work is considered your absolute last resort, so of like your M-16 compared to the survival knife hidden in ur boot.

When your looking for a good wing chun place, just make sure its under the Yip Man lineage because believe it or not , there is a lot of bad wing chun out there.

then again, when the guy is that close in to make a short cutting hook like that, as long as you stay in your centerline, its not usually a problem for us wing chun guys because our punches sort of act as blocks, cutting off those kinds of angles

well the kind of hook your describing sounds to short to get inside of it, so i'm thinking you'd have to block it at the wrist some how depending on the angle its comming at you, maybe sort of jam it into his body??

yes that is one of the fundamental ideas of wing chun, positional defence, attack while defending, but in responce to a hook punch...prepare to be amazed by the complex simplicity of wing chun physics http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/demos/2002_8_BeginnersBasic1_18/BeginnersBasic1_18_56k.mov this guy is stevie lee swift, my dad learned from him, he was the first to bring wing chun to america and is more than likely the best GM in the US today.

uhhh...i'm pretty possitive he meant both hands i thought william cheung had the record with 8.3 punches per second

i thought the best block against a hook was a dip soa. dont think thats how its spelled but you wing chun pple should know wut i mean.

hmmm... i can see that but from what i've seen, aikido has the potential to do a lot of damage in a fight. i thought it could compliment wing chun very well with its stand up wrapping and joint locks or would it take to long to develope? i like how you could contain the person without injuring them, though you may not be able to handle it that way in certain situations.