chris

>Ok Chris...< It's nothing ok between us. >I think that we have had enough tit-for-tat stuff for the time being.< I kept telling you this for a long time, but you don't seem to be able to get it. >I really don't know what is in you to be so provocative and agressive. But that's OK. I don't care.< Then heil off! In your case, considering your past personal vendettas in my case, I will take it personal if you don't stick to the subject. >You are a hyper-sensative...< If you look back on your other messages, you'll see some more of these misspells. So, same blames you bequeth upon others don't apply to you, right? >In all your verbosity, convoluted statements, and bizarre extrapolations from what has been written and said you have managed to present yourself in the full rainbow of psychological challenges which would give most shrinks a lifetime of work on their couches.< Your expressive self pity comes always in the way of making a valid point. For the most part, I have to agree with the fact that, your projection on others has brought you far on the scale of sore losers. >Don't go around challenging me.< I don't! I wouldn't get anything worth my while out of it! >It's a waste of time and certainly not in your best interest.< Threats won't work with me. Certainly I don't really have any interest in your egotistical endeavors. >And then you allude to legal trouble I may be in?< I don't allude! I ask you to consider it seriously when you send me defamatory messages to my personal account. >Our communication with one another is terminated.< I heard that before from you, but you can't control your anal urges. Your last personal message was promising the same with more towards an excusable attitude on your part, but you didn't really think I believed you, did you! >You may (and certainly will no doubt)...< Say what? >But I think that your track record with others, and then with those who will meet you in future days, will always speak for itself.< Are you talking about your couple of internet buddies whom you had time by now to stink their minds with nonsense? As if I care! Knowing the way things are, it takes more than just gossip and lies on your part. You don't know what you are talking about and you want to make others who read you think that in fact you do. Heck, if life would be that easy! > I wonder how many people you have met in all your years of training will stand up and say that yes they know you, call you friend, and will stand by you.< All those you don't know! Wonder if you wish, but won't help you sense anything, like in most cases about your knowledge of all things. Again, subtle as you may think you are, not all are as clumsy as you wish they would be, not to see your trying to distract attention from your wimpiness. >I think that the very nature of how you conduct yourself and speak to others drives others away. And rightfully so. Your conduct is offensive and repugnant.< In your case, well, taking into account your past record about false accusations and pretenses, I will take it personal and offensive. >I am certain that you will feel the knee-jerk desire to blast away and respond to what I have written here. If it will help you vent your spleen, by all means, do so. I will consider it my small contribution to your psychological rehabilitation.< Although you are trying desperately to use words to strike with, your clumsy attitude and balistic urge to self pity, will prove to make you inefficient... just like in karate. >As for me...< There we go again... >I think that I will just try to stick to the karate at hand.< What, did you want another alleluia, or applause? I kept telling you this for the past few days, but you just seemed to be too busy with your egomaniac contractions to pay attention to detail. Read through with a dictionary if that helps: I will not give you the satisfaction, nor the last word in your personal vendettas towards me. Consider taking a cold shower, or banging your head on a door if it suits you better, but take your self pity and cowardice attitude some place else.

>Your style of oblique ad hominem attack< Watch it! You are using languages you don't understand. >You had seemed to be a "straight shooter" a "tell-it-like-it-is" kind of person.< I thought you said that I was doing the opposite... are you ever going to make up your mind? >Regrettably, you must even disappoint yourself in this particular event.< In your opinion, or what? As much as you wish otherwise, I stand by what I say. >At any rate, I believe that the main focus of this thread was in response to what is the JKA, what does it mean to be a member of the JKA, and how all that fits together.< Alleluia! I thought you'd never see it! It's what I have been trying to tell you for the past three mesages I posted here. Good step forward! >Since the initial worthy attempt to address these things you have decided to make this thread something about you.< Now, look at the messages and try to depict the contents... oh, no, in order to that, you will have to recognize another's point of view... ahhh, what a pity. >And when the topic is not about you, you attack others.< It is about an objective point, not about a person. You are the one to take it all personal. Now, don't expect it when you take it personal, to have people bow before you. As I said, you want a close up, you'll have it. Are you continuing about this still?! >Silly. Juvenile. Ridiculous.< Because you have separated from the context, I have to agree with you if this is a way to express yourself about your attitude. Well done; another step forward! >Nevertheless, for those of you reading this thread and who would like to continue this discussion in earnest I would be most interested to continue exchanging ideas and points of view.< I am sure there are enough people here who will see your subtle, but not remarkable way of projecting your faults on them. It is a cowardish way, but I have not known you being any better in the past, so, I wouldn't expect any less. I am still suggesting to you, please take your personal vendettas some other place, or carry it to my personal box if you dare. I am sure you would not do it because of other issues, includng the fact that legally, that puts you on the spot.

>Sorry I have been mia < Perfectly understood! MG could have sold tickets at the corner of 42nd st for the show. >But as far as i can remember Asai sensei lost that court battle < And you want to point with that at what? The court battle was about the use of the name, not about the use of karate, or its quality on either side. Asai sensei, in the mind of many instructors around the world, including the most at the JKA, is perhaps one of the most inovative karateka ever. Conflicts of interests are based on personal issues for the most part. People don't usually get along with one another because of different attitudes and what they stand for(i.e. what you have witnessed so far on this thread). Karate, as Nakayama sensei put it one time, supposed to build bridges between people, not enlarge gaps between them. >And both sides of the org after nakayamas death were using the name JKA< For ten years, until as you said, Asai sensei lost by the court's decision to use that name again. In fact, Asai re-made himself once again. One must have a great deal of confidence and skills, not to mention talents, in order to be able to rise from its own ashes the way he had done over the years.

The organization' chief instructor is Mr. Ohshima, based in Los Angeles. You can find their website on any search engine. Mr. Ohshima himself is a very well educated man, but the karate they do is old and rather purposless in the sense that the personal achievement is disregarded on the long run. Their training is simple, but with hundreds of repetitions. It builds endurance and nothing else in my opinion. Personally, having known Mr. Ohshima for a long time, I like in part his karate and he seems to know more than the people whom he teaches. I do not know the reason for that, but that is not my concern. If young and with lots of time, it's worth of trying out as many styles and schools, just to see what is available and what fits, or suits you best. You may not know it now, but I am sure you'll build in time a sense in finding out what is best for you. It's just good to have a choice. That will help you assess better your schedule, your finances, likes, dislikes and purposes. I wish you a good training experience. Chris

>Your notion that zenkutsudachi is jiyu-kamae is just plain wrong. There really is no other way around it.< Not worth my while arguing a point I already made, but to you, obvious has a different meaning, I see. Re-read what I said and see that there was nowhere mentioned, or implied that zenkutsu dachi 'is' a jiyu kamae. I see a problem though with your generalizing, or 'sensing' this and the other, by simply assuming 'cause you just know it is so. I saw many places you said that you were not sure, or you supposed that it was so; is that a good foundation for you to generalize facts which have nothing in common sometimes? Generalizing is the argument of all who usually don't know. That just simply does not apply to each individual, style, school, thought, feeling, stance and so on. Wood and brain don't have the same meaning, I agree, but I wonder about the resemblance of their essence, sometimes.

As I said, personal matters should be taken someplace else, but if you wish to get your fists in here, there you go. It seems that, or no, for sure you talk the walk but are not able to walk the talk; that, from personal experience with you. It's easy to hide behind a screen and claim benefits with lame credentials. >No. I won't let go of it.< If you are so impatient in getting it close to your face, there you'll have it. >If you want to talk, discuss, or debate you must take the necessary time to properly, concisely, and articulately draft your responses.< Sure, I do, but let personal matters go into another box. As you can see(or did you!!!) the title of the subject is not toiletterie. Get to the personal box and we'll deal with that in there... ahh, perhaps you are not apt for manners at that level... I see... >You may not simply spew out vitriol and expect others to merely say that is OK because of a "different style".< I wasn't talking about others; I was talking about you, and that is a big difference... I mean bigger than your size... >Say what you mean and mean what you say--clearly, in proper English, or not at all.< Strangely, that is exactly what I do and you complain about it, as oppose to you, who ramble about only you know what and how long, not coming to, or making a simple point. >Style is the message.< That much I got! I just mentioned that above! >The medium is the message.< This is not your forum. Be respectful to others. Your ego may make you gain weight and gas, and I know it's hard for you to do it, but keep that to yourself. >We are how we speak.< Hopefully you understand that! >If you are unable to express yourself thoroughly and articulately then you have no real claim on having a right to argue. Do it right and do it well. Or don't bother doing it.< Who the hell are you to tell others, or impose on others how they should go about themselves! Make suggestions is more appropiate, but hey, at your level of mannerism, no real expectations. That is, again, talking from personal experience. >So now you want to get personal.< You seem to also have a poor comprehension skill. If you want to get personal, I proposed that you do it in another place, just to be respectful to others in this forum, but can't seem to control your anal urges. >Too bad.< For whom? Are you sorry already?! >I am not getting into an argument with you about how much time I spend on the toilet (check the spelling please. We are not in France).< It's so easy to set you up(also from personal experience). You missed the cultural barriers transcendence, did you... well, the same word in French meant something different and wanted to be nice to you, but hey, whichever way you took it, I knew you wouldn't have been able to take it in more than one way you knew best. Being narrow minded it helps kicking your own ass, doesn't it! >Your style is going to get you in trouble, if it hasn't already in the past.< With people like you... I am not concerned. It was no trouble at all; just a waste of time. Looking back, I am kind of sorry that I even bothered about spending for such lack of character. I will endeavor for better, I promise. >I am not going to go through your grammar or diction.< Oh, what a relief! Thank you! >I am already spending too much time on the "toilette" as it is.< I know you do; that is why I mentioned it! So, I suggest you cut it off and get to some other place where you can get rid of your personal vendettas. Try a mirror, but for that, you will need some good glasses!

>Well yes... Osaka-Sensei looked over at the senior instructor when the "error" was made and then the senior instructor corrected his statement. < That being your interpretation of the fact that was indeed a hidden mesage in his looking over his shoulder, right? >So I am sure there are discussions going on behind closed doors that you and I are not privy to. So whether you agree or not is pretty much irrelavent. It is being used at the highest levels.< You are sure of that because you heard the discussion, or that is another presumption of yours just because there must be so at higher levels? By the way, what is a higher level? >Of course people don't fight in zenkutsudachi or sanchin-dachi.< And then chris wrote: If you limit the meaning of what zenkutsu dachi means in Japanese to just that stance you do in training that is called zenkutsu dachi, then I will have to disagree. Zenkutsu dachi does not mean just feet down, stiff legs and hips and low stance. When in kamae, most karateka use a so called free style stance(kamae). Technically, that is a zenkutsu dachi called in Japanese, but to make sure all understand the difference in essence, they calle it kamae, which also incorporates your arms position. Now I write: >Of course I don't limit the meaning, but I do stick to the textbook description. Jiyu kamae is not zenkutsudachi.< Technically, yes it is a form of zenkutsu dachi. Because you know what it means in Japanese, please re-define it and you will see the utter resemblance. It is all a matter of form, not of essence, when it comes to a definition in Japanese. >Jiyu kamae is not sanchin-dachi.< For some, it happens to be. Falacy of composition does not define a valid point for me. >Jiyu kamae is jiyu kamae.< I assumed you may come to this one. So, what does jiyu kamae mean in Japanese? >If you say you are in zenkutsudachi when you are in jiyu kamae any Japanese karate instructor will tell you to your face that you are wrong.< Again, generalizations are not good style of representing facts. Do you know all Japanese instructors and what they say about what jiyu kamae is for each one of them? >Zenkutsudachi does mean that you are in the training stance, it does not simply mean that one leg is ahead and one leg is behind. That is just silly.< Whoever implied that? >Thanks for your responses chris. They seem pretty thorough. But I have a request. Please put your text through a spell-checker. It is sometimes hard to infer the meaning from your posts as there are a lot of spelling errors.< It happened, but again, you might not know the reason, yet you expect the perfect you in all that come your way. Watch your way and let others live by their own, please. If you would be that personal about it, please send a message to my personal box, don't deviate from the subject, which, if it's that hard to read for you and you are not able to understand it, please let it be. >Also, many spell checkers have grammatical suggestions. This may help you not seem to come across in such a strong and blunt manner.< From the way you speak your English, I would not ask you for suggestions. The fact that you want to show off, well, that is your style. People with fat egoes tend to spend a lot of time on their toilette. You may forget here to transcend cultural barriers of language, and that is something you don't seem to get over easily. Mind you, your suggestions would be far too philosophical for my style. None of the blunt or strong manner implied, but you read into all I write with expectations of your own. Keep them at home and see to the subject, please. If you are that eager to commit to helping others, or me, in this case, please refer to my personal box, or to the general chat. That is why they are there. When you do it, please make sure you correct the entire block of mesages from all the forums, so that you show your fairness in assessing a principle, not being judgmental to just one person.

>Of course people don't fight in zenkutsudachi or sanchin-dachi.< If you limit the meaning of what zenkutsu dachi means in Japanese to just that stance you do in training that is called zenkutsu dachi, then I will have to disagree. Zenkutsu dachi does not mean just feet down, stiff legs and hips and low stance. When in kamae, most karateka use a so called free style stance(kamae). Technically, that is a zenkutsu dachi called in Japanese, but to make sure all understand the difference in essence, they calle it kamae, which also incorporates your arms position. Relating the same thing to Pangai Noon and/or Uechi Ryu, even to Goju Ryu schools, many of them fight in a very short stance, much like sanchin dachi. Of course it is not as stiff as it is done in Sanchin kata, but I think it is a good stance to use in close combat. Also, their style of fighting and techniques that they use have different applications than the usual competition style. >The stances make your stronger so that you are head and shoulders above whatever clown is trying to clobber you.< !!! Stances make 'you' stronger... perhaps your legs, you mean to say. Your statement is far too general to be applied to just stances.

>Defining what is the JKA has been a topic kicked around a lot of internet karate forums.< Defining it is easy and obvious, but defining its legal, political and official limitations within a corporate world it has been indeed a debate, but only among non-Japanese. >At a weekend training session here in Japan (about a year ago) we had the pleasure of Osaka-Sensei come and lead us. It was a lot of fun. But during the final speeches the local senior instructor had used the words JKA and then corrected himself to say "Shotokan-ryu" instead when referring to the karate we all did together. < But not Osaka sensei... hmmm... I do not agree with the term shotokan ryu used in connection to the karate style used by the JKA. If one looks at the footage with Funakoshi sensei's karate and his direct students, the very first generation, and not Nakayama, Nishiyama, Kase and the ones who have sprung out of a younger generation, but Obata, Egami, Okano, Iito, those have a different view than that of the JKA in as far as their karate style was concerned. In short, shotokan ryu, or more precisely, shoto ryu karate is not the same as the JKA karate; the former has a broader sense, the later is specific. Nakayama sensei has made his own style of karate, yet, of course, based on some of Funakoshi sensei's ideas. Funakoshi sensei in fact, didn't do more than a shorin ryu type of karate.

>Your entire response was in 3rd person, and I was merely trying to figure out who you are < You only have to look and you'll find the name clearly marked. >Im speaking on behalf of myself. when i was in tokyo i was treated as a JKA member (ie i just paid to train, not membership dues etc.)< If you look at all the websites of all organizations in the USA, at least, that are related to the JKA, you will see after their name coming a statement such as, ... member of the JKA... Of course they would treat you courteously if you were a member of the JKA, but not the same way if you are a member of an affiliate of the JKA; that is your official title if you pay a membership to an organization affiliated with or to the JKA. The officilaity of the JKA stops at the border of Japan. There is no international law that can control or impose the laws of a country in other countries, therefore the limitations as far as their business in the country that their government has recognized them. Your organization may use the same standards, as it does, may use the same name as the JKA, as it does not at this point in time, but officially, you are not a direct member of the JKA in Japan, unless you pay the membership to them and get a card that they usually give out, to prove that. The kyu rank certificates that you are given, are not from Japan, yet the dan ranks are, but only made for their international liaisons, not for the dan ranks given in Japan. The ones you see around you are the ones for foreigners, nicer, more flashy and in two languages. The only person that has ever allowed the name of the JKA being used freely around the world was Asai sensei, between 1990 and 1999. Every country that was a member of his JKA, had used the name of the JKA linked to the country's logo; and that was officially recognized. It doesn't work the same with the JKA. JKA wants to monopolize and control its members. Mr. Schmidt is the only one who has full monopoly in South Africa for using the name of the JKA. Ochi sensei had followed suit when he formed his own in Germany and a few others still try. Times change and rules of the game will also have to change. The problem in the USA is that the politics between Mr. Nishiyama, Mr. Okazaki and Mr. Mori have come to a stand and at this stage will not resolve any issues and problems in order to facilitate a better cooperation among themelves and their members. When they are gone, I am sure that things will change around.

Are you speaking on behalf of Osaka sensei, or on behalf of the JKA? For the second part of your sentence, read through my statement, please, not on top of it.

I won't go by god's opinion on this one, as I do not know his opinion. JKA is an association(see what the letters stand for) of instructors who have and still do their own karate, promoting it in and out of Japan. As soon as a company, regardless what you call it, becomes officially recognized by a group of people, or a government, it sustains itself by a political agenda. Every organization, company, firm, or even family has the same feature. What is the problem with that? Now, the fact that one hears that and the other, it's someone's opinion. People who have been members of the JKA, or trained at the JKA have different opinions., and their opinion is personal, whether shared by many, or just by a few. You just seem to incline more towards one opinion than the other. Horrible is a term more related to a fiction, or horror movie. What has that to do with the JKA? More so, you seem to have heard that they were ignorant. Who isn't and towards what, or whom? What are you specifically talking about? You are JKA, is not a proper statement, nor sense full sentence, in my opinion. If you are a member of a group related to the JKA, that is a different story. The JKA exists only in Japan. All other groups that are members of the JKA, do not and cannot represent the JKA at any political level, but do represent their karate style and standards. If any of the representatives of those groups do try and impose the JKA politics outside Japan, then they are definitely doing something wrong. Understanding the reason for being the best makes you seem quite good at what you are doing, yet I must commit to disagreeing with your understanding if it is just about what you hear from others. Being the best require a comparison; what is yours? Then you say 'we' have no character. Who is we? And if that 'honestly' includes you, is that a statement refered to the fact that you know all are like you, or you are like them all? Having no character is quite a harsh statement for one who is dilligently trying every time he trains(at least) to improve his character; I think that is one of the percepts of the JKA kun, isn't it! I think that the best way to find out for yourself the truth(your truth) is to have a direct and personal experience with the JKA and its relevant members, or instructors.

The best books are the ones which help you find and make you understand better what you are looking for. Generally speaking, any literature is good in itself as long as it raises your interest when reading it. In any sense of it, reading is good and helps your general culture evolve. Labeling books by whom had written them is the same as labeling jeans by whom made them, for example. I have seen though better quality jeans made by little known companies and designers than Levi, or Wrangler. Selling in quantity does not point to quality products. On the same token, not finding some books on the shelves it has to do with an argument between the publisher and the author, in some rare cases, but mostly, it has to do with the fact that the publisher does not find that selling more of that book is going to bring him a considerable profit. Amazon, for example, picks up books that no one sells anymore, at a cheap deal and then brings them back onto the market by selling them at a huge profit. Does that make the bokk worthwhile? In my opinion, not at all. In better asessing your evaluations, you will go through a lot of garbage, but how you will make the difference, has more to do with more than just reading many books. On the other hand, the more you read, the more you will become able to make that difference for yourself. Someone's opinion is someone's opinion, not necessarily yours. Chris