Mark Groenewold

Personally, I think you should just go for it. Give it a try! You might bump into someone interesting and it would be a unique experience. But the advice to take care of yourself when abroad is a good idea too. If the training looks unsafe, just bow out and excuse yourself. I'd just hate for you to miss out on an opportunity just for being overly timid. Enjoy! Mark

For a history text you can't go wrong with either Harry Cook's beautiful text, or Randall Hassel's "Shotokan Karate: It's History and Evolution". Granted, there is a fair bit of Shotokan focussed stuff there, but the material on the early karate pioneers is quite excellent as well. Mark

Hello smr, Thanks for the feedback! The reason that the pages are set up the way that they are is that we wanted to have, as much as possible a "magazine" feel to the site. Yes, some pages are long, particularly the Letters page, but others are a little more balanced in terms of images and text. I realize that some people have a short attention span, but that is not necessarily the target audience I am looking for. I am interested in people who enjoy reading, enjoy following descriptions or arguments, and who want to submerse themselves a little in the text. But I hope that there is a little something there for everyone. We try to update regularly so you are most welcome back and see how things are evolving. Many thanks again, Mark

Dear Friends and Neighbors, You are cordially invited to see what updates and additions, breaking news and revisions have been made at http://www.karatethejapaneseway.com For those unfamiliar with this relatively new website (2 years old and counting), the content is prepared by myself, a long-time ex-patriate resident in Japan. I have been doing karate during my 8 year plus stay as well. This site has been created and tended with the beginner to karate in mind, as well as instructors and senior folk who wonder what karate is really like in Japan. Anyway, enough preamble from me. Come on over, take a look around, and let me know how it looks, how I did, what needs to be changed, what needs to be added. Many thanks, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Agreed! I'm tall (6'3) but have met all kinds of smaller teachers and karate-ka here in Japan. I can't count how many times someone smaller than me has slipped inside my maai!! But then again, with slower or equally fast opponents, I have the advantage of longer arms and can usually keep them at bay. Shorter guys can (and often must) move more quickly. I guess you just have to use what you've got to your best advantage. Mark Groenewold

On cross-training: Over the years I have done a fair bit of gym-training to complement karate and it helps a lot. I find that the karate training has become more of honing skills, remembering moves, technique, distancing, and some more finesse. the running, weights, and aerobic work gives me a stronger body to bring to the dojo. So I suppose you have to figure out which accents the other. Does the cross-training help your karate or does the karate help you in the gym/basketball court.... etc.? Mark Groenewold

If I may be so bold... I suggest checking out this section of my site: http://karatethejapaneseway.com/gradings/index.html If anyone has something to add, are argue with, by all means, let me know. Best regards Mark Groenewold

Thank you SaifightsMS for your comments. I agree that it is important to respond to others' posts with respect, but only if it is merited. There have been a variety of personal attacks in this thread, and although I do not necessarily retract a syllable of what I have written, I certainly apologize to bystanders in this discussion who are offended by what I have said. I have only myself to blame in my responses and am sorry if my comments to the umbrageous posts aimed my way offend the sensibilities of others. I did not know that "chris" was actually someone with whom I have had contact with previously and did not know it was the same person until a few posts into our "discussion". Now that I know who I am dealing with clearly, I shall respond in these forums with due caution and simply ask that chris refrain from any further personal attacks. I shall certainly do the same. Regards, Mark Groenewold

Hello aes, And thanks for the nice comment. Glad you liked the article. I have to agree that sometimes there seems to be a division between what kind of karate different people do. Are you a kumite player? Are you a kata specialist? It seems that in some contexts you have to choose one or the other. In my dojo I train a fair bit in kumite, although I am finding that I am slowing down.... ahhhhhh!!! Some "karate types" seems to be ear-marked for kumite rather than kata, and vice versa. So I think that for me, in order to really improve my karate, I need to do more kata. There are a whack of them I have yet to really learn, and then kata outside my own style. The road goes on and on. But it is good travel and the weather is fair. Best regards, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Ok Chris, I think that we have had enough tit-for-tat stuff for the time being. I really don't know what is in you to be so provocative and agressive. But that's OK. I don't care. You are a hyper-sensative person and you have wasted enough bandwidth with your prattle. In all your verbosity, convoluted statements, and bizarre extrapolations from what has been written and said you have managed to present yourself in the full rainbow of psychological challenges which would give most shrinks a lifetime of work on their couches. Don't go around challenging me. It's a waste of time and certainly not in your best interest. And then you allude to legal trouble I may be in? Please, you make me laugh. And then you call me a coward to try to goad me? LOL! Get lost. Our communication with one another is terminated. You may (and certainly will no doubt) say what you wish about me. But I think that your track record with others, and then with those who will meet you in future days, will always speak for itself. I wonder how many people you have met in all your years of training will stand up and say that yes they know you, call you friend, and will stand by you. I think that the very nature of how you conduct yourself and speak to others drives others away. And rightfully so. Your conduct is offensive and repugnant. I am certain that you will feel the knee-jerk desire to blast away and respond to what I have written here. If it will help you vent your spleen, by all means, do so. I will consider it my small contribution to your psychological rehabilitation. As for me, I think that I will just try to stick to the karate at hand. The rest, the backbiting, badmouthing, gossip and inuendo, maligning of others' characters, bitter venom, and verbal diarrhea is all yours. Bugger off. Most sincerely, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Interesting thread. It was quite by coincidence that I wrote an article for my site that follows some of the arguments mentioned so far in this thread. http://karatethejapaneseway.com/articles/karate_sucks.html I had fun writing this one... Cheers to all, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

This should be a fun thread. Yes, good Shotokan karateka can hold their own against anything with a pulse. Yes, instructors kicking students in the groin is outrageous in any situation. Yes, it is weird that a room full of students would stand imobile while the teacher wanders around the dojo playing football with their gonads. Run man! Run!!! Low stances are training stances. If you can do technique low you can do it higher up. The reverse simply is not so. I'm not such a tough guy but the toughest guys I ever spar against are all Shotokan dudes. The thing about Shotokan which makes it special (imho) is that it is has a one-shot fight approach to kumite. Every punch, block, and kick is designed to dispatch the greatest amount of damage possible to the attacker. Shotokan is an "all or nothing affair". For some it is all they need. For others, its nothing.... (that's too bad though... ) Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

I really enjoy my club, my teacher, and the whole karate experience. I also get to do it all here in Japan, so that is a bonus. I even put together a pretty lengthy website about the whole thing. If you are interested, please feel free to go and take a look at what I have put together. Any comments, suggestions, objections, rejections, inflections, or defections can be sent to my email address. Or even addressed on these forums. Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan http://www.karatethejapaneseway.com

Very interesting and amusing post, Chris. Your style of oblique ad hominem attack is most interesting. You had seemed to be a "straight shooter" a "tell-it-like-it-is" kind of person. Regrettably, you must even disappoint yourself in this particular event. At any rate, I believe that the main focus of this thread was in response to what is the JKA, what does it mean to be a member of the JKA, and how all that fits together. Since the initial worthy attempt to address these things you have decided to make this thread something about you. And when the topic is not about you, you attack others. Silly. Juvenile. Ridiculous. Nevertheless, for those of you reading this thread and who would like to continue this discussion in earnest I would be most interested to continue exchanging ideas and points of view. For those of you who wish to engage Chris further on his thesis on himself, please continue to do so. I would like to merely stick to the issues and lay off the personalities. Best regards to all (even you Chris!) Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Working on kata through video is hard enough as it is.... but with CD rom... sheesh. I can't imagine hauling the computer into the dojo. TV's seem to be more standard fare with some dojos. Of course I just try to see what I can do in the livingroom without bashing my shins on the coffee table too hard. BTW, are there any Shotokan DVD's being made yet? Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

I wrote: >Thanks for your responses chris. They seem pretty thorough. But I have a request. Please put your text through a spell-checker. It is sometimes hard to infer the meaning from your posts as there are a lot of spelling errors.< chris replied: It happened, but again, you might not know the reason, yet you expect the perfect you in all that come your way. Watch your way and let others live by their own, please. Not all of us have the time to spend in front of the computer that you do. If you would be that personal about it, please send a message to my personal box, don't deviate from the subject, which, if it's that hard to read for you and you are not able to understand it, please let go of it. So now I say: No. I won't let go of it. If you want to talk, discuss, or debate you must take the necessary time to properly, concisely, and articulately draft your responses. You may not simply spew out vitriol and expect others to merely say that is OK because of a "different style". Say what you mean and mean what you say--clearly, in proper English, or not at all. Style is the message. The medium is the message. We are how we speak. You cannot divorce these two things from eachother. If you are unable to use the English language to an appropriate level of expressing your ideas and thoughts then you ought not debate. If you are unable to express yourself thoroughly and articulately then you have no real claim on having a right to argue. Do it right and do it well. Or don't bother doing it. I wrote: >Also, many spell checkers have grammatical suggestions. This may help you not seem to come across in such a strong and blunt manner.< Then Chris wrote: From the way you speak your English, I would not ask you for suggestions. The fact that you want to show off, well, that is your style. People with fat egoes tend to spend a lot of time on their toilette. Now I write: So now you want to get personal. Too bad. I am not getting into an argument with you about how much time I spend on the toilet (check the spelling please. We are not in France). Move on. And finally Chris writes: You may forget here to transcend cultural barriers of language, and that is something you don't seem to get over. Mind you, your suggestions would be far too philosophical for my style. None of the blunt or strong manner implied, but you read into all I write with expectations of your own. Keep them at home and see to the subject, please. If you are that eager to commit to helping others, or me, in this case, please refer to my personal box, or to the general chat. That is why they are there. When you do it, please make sure you correct the entire block of mesages from all the forums, so that you show your fairness in assessing a principle, not being judgemental to just one person. So I write: I am not "eager" to help you. You need to help yourself. Get some help with your writing. Your style is going to get you in trouble, if it hasn't already in the past. I am not going to go through your grammar or diction. I am already spending too much time on the "toilette" as it is. Good luck with whatever it is you do Chris. Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

I wrote: >Well yes... Osaka-Sensei looked over at the senior instructor when the "error" was made and then the senior instructor corrected his statement. < chris wrote: That being your interpretation of the fact that was indeed a hidden mesage in his looking over his shoulder, right? True, I do interpret things as I see them. It seems bright outside so I say the sun is shining. It gets very cloudy, so I say it might rain. Yes, I did interpret things I saw and also manage to talk to my instructors about such things. Please don't imply that I don't know what I am talking about. I wrote: >So I am sure there are discussions going on behind closed doors that you and I are not privy to. So whether you agree or not is pretty much irrelavent. It is being used at the highest levels.< chris replied: You are sure of that because you heard the discussion, or that is another presumption of yours just because there must be so at higher levels? By the way, what is a higher level? I write: I think you are trying to goad me. I won't bite, so you can knock it off. I wrote: >Of course I don't limit the meaning, but I do stick to the textbook description. Jiyu kamae is not zenkutsudachi.< chris replied: Technically, yes it is a form of zenkutsu dachi. Because you know what it means in Japanese, please re-define it and you will see the utter resemblance. It is all a matter of form, not of essence, when it comes to a definition in Japanese. I write: So, I should re-define it to suit your purposes (whatever purposes they may be, I cannot guess!) Nonsense. Terms and definitions simply do not hvae relative meanings merely because you wish it, or hope to have an image of sage-like wisdom. I was quite clear the first time around. I suggest a re-read of what I wrote previously in its entirety. Finally chris also writes: Again, generalizations are not good style of representing facts. Do you know all Japanese instructors and what they say about what jiyu kamae is for each one of them? So I write: Well, of course I haven't talked to EVERY Japanese teacher in Japan. How ludicrous! Do I have to talk to everyone the sun is shining on to verify that the sun is up? Your notion that zenkutsudachi is jiyu-kamae is just plain wrong. There really is no other way around it. Sorry. Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

I wrote: >At a weekend training session here in Japan (about a year ago) we had the pleasure of Osaka-Sensei come and lead us. It was a lot of fun. But during the final speeches the local senior instructor had used the words JKA and then corrected himself to say "Shotokan-ryu" instead when referring to the karate we all did together. < And chris wrote: But not Osaka sensei... hmmm... I do not agree with the term shotokan ryu used in connection to the karate style used by the JKA Now I write: Well yes... Osaka-Sensei looked over at the senior instructor when the "error" was made and then the senior instructor corrected his statement. So I am sure there are discussions going on behind closed doors that you and I are not privy to. So whether you agree or not is pretty much irrelavent. It is being used at the highest levels. And now on to stances: I wrote: >Of course people don't fight in zenkutsudachi or sanchin-dachi.< And then chris wrote: If you limit the meaning of what zenkutsu dachi means in Japanese to just that stance you do in training that is called zenkutsu dachi, then I will have to disagree. Zenkutsu dachi does not mean just feet down, stiff legs and hips and low stance. When in kamae, most karateka use a so called free style stance(kamae). Technically, that is a zenkutsu dachi called in Japanese, but to make sure all understand the difference in essence, they calle it kamae, which also incorporates your arms position. Now I write: Of course I don't limit the meaning, but I do stick to the textbook description. Jiyu kamae is not zenkutsudachi. Jiyu kamae is not sanchin-dachi. Jiyu kamae is jiyu kamae. If you say you are in zenkutsudachi when you are in jiyu kamae any Japanese karate instructor will tell you to your face that you are wrong. Zenkutsudachi does mean that you are in the training stance, it does not simply mean that one leg is ahead and one leg is behind. That is just silly. Thanks for your responses chris. They seem pretty thorough. But I have a request. Please put your text through a spell-checker. It is sometimes hard to infer the meaning from your posts as there are a lot of spelling errors. Also, many spell checkers have grammatical suggestions. This may help you not seem to come across in such a strong and blunt manner. Best regards, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Defining what is the JKA has been a topic kicked around a lot of internet karate forums. Is it a style? a school? a political organization? Some, a few, or all of the above? It is difficult to say that ISKF or ITKF is the JKA. There may be some positive or negative feelings that exist between the top instructors of these groups. Do they really acknowledge eachother or just all equally hold claim to being the heirs apparent of Nakayama-Sensei? It's a tricky question and the answers may be complex. At a weekend training session here in Japan (about a year ago) we had the pleasure of Osaka-Sensei come and lead us. It was a lot of fun. But during the final speeches the local senior instructor had used the words JKA and then corrected himself to say "Shotokan-ryu" instead when referring to the karate we all did together. I thought that was very interesting, even though I am not completely sure what that meant. Apparently however, there are discussions going on about such things that we know little about. But Chris's questions about what is the JKA are quite provocative, and it seems that the term JKA has been used with increasing abandon. Mark Groenewold

Excellent points. Sometimes merely the name of the author does not carry the book. Much like music perhaps... anyone else remember Elvis Costello and Bill Frisells album... sheesh... It is true that amazon picks up all kinds of books that are out of print.... and that there is some garbage in there.... but sometimes one man's trash is another man's treasure. Nice post.

Matsukaze... never heard of that kata. It is, however the name of a Noh drama. Are they related in some way? Mark Groenewold

Elmar Schmeisser has written some excellent books on karate--one on advanced training (tough reading!) and another on kata application. These texts are apparently getting very hard to access these days so if you see them available on e-bay you should snap them up. As for other books to check out, I have several extensive reviews on my site, which you are most welcome to check out. Follow the link in my signature and take a look. A few of the articles have been written by some authoritative voices in the Shotokan world. More to be added as time marches on. Cheers, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Thanks a lot for the kind responses. I am really surprised how quickly they came! I just went home for a few hours, came back to my office and BANG a whole whack of people responded. Cool. Thanks also for looking at my site. That is much appreciated. The whole site was actually designed as a prototype for the book. Several chapters were put up and tested against a wide band-width of different readers in the martial arts. In the process however, I also added articles, reviews, links, and responded to the ton of letters I was getting. So the site kind of grew into something else.... a kind of monster. The book, however, went a different way. Has a ton of material not on the site and has a whole lot of photos I had taken here in Japan. It is slated to come out in the next few weeks. The cover of the book is on the index page of the site actually. And the man in the photos is my teacher, Taniguchi-Sensei. If you folks have any thoughts, questions, criticisms, or suggestions I would love to hear what you have to say. Best, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan

Hello all, Don't your instructors tell you that the stances are designed to train your muscles, strengthen your legs, develop flexibility and depth in technique, so that if you do have to fight you can do so with greater strength, speed, and flexibility. Of course people don't fight in zenkutsudachi or sanchin-dachi. That is just silly. The stances make your stronger so that you are head and shoulders above whatever clown is trying to clobber you. Cheers to all. Mark Groenewold

Hi. I think that I was once on this forum, disappeared and am now in my second incarnation. My name is Mark Groenewold and I am living, training, working, and eating sushi here in groovy Nippon. I have cruised around these forums a bit and am glad to throw myself into the fray. Although I have been pretty active on the Yahoo Shotokan List I am looking forward to checking out what these forums have to offer too. In the meantime I ask your patience and good humor as we hang out. Best regards, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan