JerryLove

My arts built around the concept of a short blade... the unarmed movements become the armed movements with pretty much taht change.... That's one reason my body mechanics are different from (say) TKD. Can I find similarities between two given activities? Sure can. Are there universals? Not really ones that aren't painfully basic. In regards to european weapons... You will find fincing is still a popular sport, and they tend to teach foil, epeee, and rapier. The qhip is also a common weapon you can find books on or occassionally instructors (either amony coyboys or the occassional (eh-hem) recreational users. For more classic styles, I'd recommend orginaztions like thehaca.com... They have a discussion board with many links and reasources on renesance-period weaponry. I learned the epee from my uncle and from the fencing club at teh Y in Ft.Myers. I learned most other weapons from my mentor in the SCA and many in his family. And yes, outside of fencing, the Western MA groups are putting a lot of effor into finding out how things were done.. much has been "reinvented" because of a limit of information.

"taking out" the weilder is not jamming... nor is getting a takedown, nor shooting him, nor any other red-herring you've thrown up to avoid addressing the issue of jamming. Staves can be weilded with effect at body contact range. They work, I've used similar items that way. They don't jam easily by their nature.

Umm... I've never met a WC practitioner that faugt from that stance. They all used a variation on cat stance. You guys fight from that?

that would be my argument. When a grappler is lunging for a leg-takedown, how stable is that? What stance at all is being done from a guard, or a mount? What if he isn't stable, just well attached? That's not "catching", nor is it typically how a whip is used outside of movies. You have the choice.. swing light and retain conrtol, but weather you hit or not, you will not kill your opponent. Swing harder, and you can't expect to recoil a 20lb blade, but you can expect to kill your opponent if you hit. But regardless of weather you think it's approriate or not, it's true. I've personally trained and used the weapons I listed. They are used differently. If you think you can use boxing mechanics with a claymore, I look forward to a copy of the tape.

Some good and obvious suggestions. I'd alos recommend a few of the Sialt styles (such as Serak and tjimande) which have no real athletic requirement.

You are back into the "so basic as to be useless" argument... and again you would be wrong because ground-grappling (such as is popular in arts like BJJ) does not rely on balance. So if balance is an example of body mechanic common to all fighting arts, it's not. That's just funny. I take it you've never tried that on a whip. Unless you are reaching with your foot, then your body's going the other way... unless you are moving forward when reaching with your foot, in which case it's going the same way but simply off-balance forward, unless you are on the ground. The mechanics change based on what you are ding and how you do it. If you drop to a bottom grip on a claymore and swing, and miss, you will not eb stable. So you feel dropping your weight on an epee thrust, or a J-shot with a shortsword, or a whip, or even an uppercut will add power? An interesting, if rather fanciful view.

OTOH, if you are bouncing I sure know what rythem you will be attacking / defending off of.

When working with an epee, but legs are loweres and I'm pressing off them, my back is generallt straight and angled toward my opponent for reach, I'm not particularly rooted as I'm not looking for power, but speed. When working a whip, one's legs are generall upright. you are no longer pushing off your leg, but looking to maximize movement of your arm. Generally there is far less tension, your standing far taller, and your back is moving far more. Your arms are also more mobile (since you are now after some gross arm movements which are bad wih an epee). When working a claymore, your body is tucked in, your legs are somewhere between the two extremes above. If your oponent is still at range, and if you are using a style similar to the one I trained, then your attack comes from a pivoting of the weapon in place. There is no onvolvement of the legs or back to any real degree. I didn't know competition was the criteria to determine if an art was martial... I suppose you could replace capoeria with TKD if you like. That most certainly competes.

Untill you get so basic as to be useless (muscles contract against bones causing movement), the mechanics change all the time. A whip is wielded with defferent mechanics than an epeee, which is handled differently than a claymore, which is not used with the same mechanics of a capoerist who uses different body mechanics than a WC practitioner.

You and I have a similar taste in handguns.

Which hand? Grab outside the top hand and you should get hit with the bottom of the weapon... grab ouside the bottom and you get hit with the top. Grab inbetween the hands and you lack the leverage. Grab with both hands and youare not jamming, you are contesting. I've donr it. I've hit opponents who were pressed agasint me with a functionally similar weapon (a great sword made of rattan). I don't need to argue the physics, I've done the hit... often. You *can* generate a great deal of power on either end by pivoting, it *is* enough to reliably get a stick-jock to 'call" (even when thrown relatively lightly). I'm not sure what pert of "I've done it" makes you feel that you arguing your theories on biomechanice (this isn't phyiscs, we are not discussing rigid pointal mass items) will cause me to suddenly believe that what I have actually done didn't really happen. The ends are not pussing, they are hitting. You should know that a push would not count as a blow in the SCA. But you ahve not. You have not described anywhere you could jam the weapon. All right, that cinces it, you are not reading what I actually said. FROM MY *FIRST* POST ON THE SUBJECT: "That "[the difficulty of jamming]" depends entirely on how you use it." [the staff] "The European quarterstaff skills work best up close, and the indonesian spear stuff still works quite well. " - Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:12 pm I have ALWAYS maintind it depended on how it was used. I have from the beginning arguing only that it was difficult to jam a staff used in the fashons above.

i've seen less of a shot... done with rattan rather than hard wood, break an arm that had been put in armor. you don't mind loosing your arm? I don't think you understand how power is generated in the hold I am discussing. Using a great sword in the SCA (very similar use of power and distance), *the* common tactic for someone with a shorter weapon (or sword and shield) was to try to get in and hit (and if they have a shield, pretty much always jam). While the person with the shiled has an advantage if he gets in close (and by close, I mean pressing agaasint you close), it's still quite possible (and if you are decent, common) to generate a gread deal of power, even in unusual directions, at no range what-so-ever. OK, at this point I'm simply convinced you have never seen anything resembling what I am talking about, and that you are not even really trying to. the "rate-of-fire" on the weapon is extremely high, and your knee is easier to reach with the other end of the stick than mine is with yours. Since the weapon can be employed... with power... when we are bodily pressed against one-another, your claim that it's easily jammed is a false one. This is not, and was not, a discussion of "what can I do to take out the guy with the staff (same to you andrew, it was not about a take down). This was a specific claim that the staff is easy to jam... it is not, it is very hard to jam... at least if they are using it at all well.

It depends on the rules of sparring at your school. Options (which may not be allowed / available include) Step in and kick their knee or groin (shorter distance). Step back and come in as soon as their foot crosses you. Hit their leg. Bone shield (taking the hit) while you step in and trip/sweep/hit them in the groin.

If thrown well, blocking a haymaker requiers a good deal of force (unless you are much bigger than they are). That said, a single anticdotal example doesn't make a "no matter what" rule.

What makes you think, with a 60 lb pack on your back, you'll have the mobility to make that decision?

Oh, so now all culinary arts use the same body mechanics? So you chop carrots with a knife the same way you chop meat with a cleaver the same way you fellet a fish, the same way you peel a potato? Funny, I remember different mechanics for each of those.

I spent 3 years fencing. I spent 2 years in armor fighting with replicas (in weight and balance) of several medieval European weapons. I now spend my time in a knife art. I've done all these movements, and done them competitively. I don't need to go watch someone do them, I've done them myself, against others, and over the course of years. They are different.

If MMA competition has taught us anything, it's that the belief that you can count on an ability to control range is a false one. short-distance power would be of obvious use in grappling, in close areas, and in directions where longers power-options are not available. Not to mention that additng the short-range power techniques to long range power hits only adds to the force.

If we can agre that boxing does teach proper timing.. how come there were zero pure boxers who managed to not get taken down in fights which allowed it? Boxing teaches nothing which solves the problem of the takedown. A pure boxer has no real defence against a takedown. Not all arts are equally capable of winning a fight.

OK, so the body mechanics in kedo involves dropping your body and crashing downward... what would happen to a fencer that tried that? Oh yes, he'd loose. The body mechanics are quite different. The mechanics are different from thrusting weapons (epee) to slashing weapons (sabre) to draw-cut weapons (katana) to bludgeoning and hacking weapons (mace). Similarly, the mechanics are different from large weapons (greatsword) to medium weapons (cutlass) to small weapons (tactical folder). You may strike a nail the same way you cut a steak, but the rest of us do not.

Nope, SpecOps focuses on force multiplication more than anything else.... strong mission specialists capable of integraing with and training indegenous forces. While most SpecOps groups get generally heavier training than standard operations groups, the same emphasis applies. The job of a member of SpecOps is to train others and to perform unusual and deep-insertion tasks... with their weapons. Dennis Rovere, whose martial career has centered on heading over to China and training with the Chinese millitary forces. When I open up my PODS next week I can find his artical on Chinese millitary knife-fighting where he plainly states what I said. Actually, I was speaking of the US millitary... but it's a generally true statement worldwide. The country that spends time on HtH wastes time that could be spent on discipline, training for their primary role, communications, etc. I addressed that when I said: "That said, they pretty much all encourage personell to spend time and effor into learning martial-arts..." - JerryLove Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:16 pm So, please try to read what I said and respond to the topic at hand rather than the uninformed rant you are currently persuing.

So a fencer should use the same body-mechanics as a kendoka? your post seems more like a speech than a comment on the topic.

Let me ask the million dollar question... How many people here are speaking from experience? How many of the people making statements about how chi works and what it is work with chi? I do qigong, I do chi-helaing, I use chi combatively and work with others that do the same. Since we are all talking in opinions, from where are these opinions based?

And yet the Chinese millitary, even in weapon work, does not allow the groin as a target because it's "dishonorable". I think that illustrates their priorities.

If I don't feel safe, act zealously to ensure my safety until I do feel safe.