ZepedaWingChun

Yes.

That’s not always true. The same could be said in reverse. You can take a couch potato (or some uncoordinated geek) and train them in the best Muay Thai school, with the best instructors and best methods, and they're still ineffective. They get beat by a superb athlete with terrible technique. I’ve seen it in Wing Chun classes, Muay Thai classes, BJJ classes, wrestling classes, boxing classes and Karate classes. It still comes down to the individual. I have to disagree. You wouldn’t go into the ring and only use or have the elbows of Muay Thai at your disposal. You can’t win with just an elbow technique. You use everything you need, but how do you know what that is? If you have all your tools at your disposal, the kicks, punches, elbows, knees, footwork, you have the correct responses for the situation. And you use them all at the right time. And without all your tools available, you’re limited in what you can do and how effective you can be. I believe you misunderstood my reply, I said extreme movements are not needed. I agree with you there, but most everyone perceives gross motor skills (big motions) as needed to generating more power. But trapping is not attacking the arm. A misconception of trapping is that I am trapping you. Incorrect, you’re trapping yourself. And if a trap is possible, I’ll use it. But, I (or Wing Chun practitioners in general) am not going to try (and should not attempt) to use a trap if it isn’t there. If you feint, it doesn’t mean I will attempt to use a trap every time. It will depend on the situation. Everyone thinks that Wing Chun only has trapping and that’s that all we ever do. Wrong. It has grappling. I don’t know about other lineages, but I was doing grappling in Wing Chun with my sifu in the eighties before the big BJJ craze hit the U.S.A. Not true, see my first response. I never said anyone was withheld anything. I said those forms were reserved for the most diligent, the most dedicated, the most trusted life long students to the kwoon. I think after 2 years in any school you are considered those things. You don’t get a Black Belt in Gracie JuJitsu in 2 years, right? It takes at least 8 - 10 years. And then it’s the most trusted, the most diligent, the most dedicated students because it takes that long to get to that level. That’s all. Same in Wing Chun, it takes that long to get to the advance levels to be taught those forms. I also said students don’t get to the levels needed to see or be taught how to generate striking power correctly or use the footwork in its entirety. That’s because they don’t stay around long enough to get it. That is a common problem (as well as many others) with all martial arts schools. 6 months and poof, they’re outta here. 6 months in Muay Thai gets you a foundation, but you are not the same type of fighter as someone practicing diligently for 2 years, correct? And students are taught footwork in Wing Chun long before they get to the forms I mentioned previously. But many do not use the footwork. That is a limitation of the practitioner, not the system. As far as anything hidden, it’s not. It’s all in plain sight for you to see. With time you will be taught everything. You can’t just get it immediately in Wing Chun. There are foundations that must be built, which takes time. I agree with you that footwork is a major component of fighting, but you first have to learn to stand before you can walk. As a side note, I can't speak for other Wing Chun lines. Everything I stated refers to my lineage and the Wing Chun I was taught.

Thanks for the welcome everyone. Hope to converse with you on a regular basis.

You're someone who knows what they are doing, Gen_Tora. I would do the same. However, I stated 3 rounds dead center in the chest because if caught, law enforcement would claim I meant to kill them, if I took a head-shot. With at least 3 in the chest, it looks more like self defense. And I'd use a full clip because its known that when people are scared, and pull a trigger, they just keep pulling and pulling, not realizing how many rounds they have fired. So I would just empty the clip, again it looks like self defense.

You hit the nail in the head, Traditional-Fist. We have the same problems here in the States. Too many people teaching Wing Chun without the full knowledge of the system, attempting to "cash in" on the art that Bruce Lee made famous. Sorry to hear you will be training in another art for lack of a training partner or kwoon in Wing Chun.

Hi stonecrusher69. I too have been through 2 lines. My first Wing Chun line was through: Moy Yat Bill Wong ZepedaWingChun I trained with my first sifu for 4 years. He was a disciple of Moy Yat in the late 1970's early 1980's. After that, I sought out Sifu Francis Fong, in Atlanta, and have been with him ever since. Went to a seminar he was giving (with Dan Inosanto at his JKD school) around 1982, in Charlotte (NC), while with my first sifu. Sifu Fong's Wing Chun was so explosive and dynamic at that seminar, that it made a lasting impression. And he is still like that to this day. I remember reading something about Fut Sao Wing Chun in Inside Kung Fu, back in the middle to late 1980's. Interesting article if my memory serves me correct. Anyway, nice to meet you.

Hi MizuRyu, Seen a few of your posts in this forum. I believe the Ving Tsun Athletic Association is under Yip Chun and Yip Ching, both sons of the late Yip Man.

Oh, and as a side note, make sure the clip is full of live rounds. Just in case you have to pull the trigger more than 3 times.

I'm new to this forum and have spent a few days reading the various posts in all the sections. However, since Wing Chun is the art I train, I just wanted to know who my Wing Chun brothers/sisters are and how many members on this forum practice/teach Wing Chun/Wing Tsun/Ving Tsun, etc. Would like to know your lineage if possible, so, you can PM me that info for privacy. Just curious as to who else is out there and what branch of the tree you came from. For anyone intertested, here is my line: Chan Wah Shun Chan Mim Jiu Wan Francis Fong ZepedaWingChun

Presented is an excerpt about the salutation in Wing Chun History from a link at the Ving Tsun Museum: Upon meeting, the revolutionaries identified themselves to each other with a secret hand-signal that would come to be the formal greeting or courtesy of Wing Chun. In fact, the traditional greeting or courtesy common to many of today's kung fu styles has two meanings. The first meaning recognizes the style's Shaolin origins - the left hand symbolizing the union of the Green Dragon (the left hand) and the White Tiger (the right hand), the fighting animals of the Shaolin monks. In the Hung Fa Yi (Red Flower Righteous) Lineage of Wing Chun, however, the hands are reversed: the left hand forms a fist and the right hand is open palm. It still retains its significance to Shaolin but it also refers to the secret society. In this context, the fist represents Yat (the Sun) and the palm represents Yuet (the Moon). Combined, these two characters mean "Bright" which reads and sounds like "Ming." This is the name of the previous Dynasty - the one overthrown by the Manchurians who formed the "Ching" Dynasty in its place. Hence, during the time of rebellion, when a Wing Chun practitioner or secret society member saluted with a fist and open palm pushed toward you, they were saying "Return the Ming, overturn the Ching." http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/meng/truthrevealed.php

Pros: If you follow the theories, concepts and principles as designed, it's a devastating art. But, "It's the fighter, not the art" that has to make it work. Cons: "It's the fighter, not the art" that fails to make the art work as designed. Too many practitioners think that Wing Chun will just "work for them" without any effort.

Wing Chun is a very effective. As is any martial art, they’re all effective. If you connect with a round kick (from Shotokan or TKD) to the head of a Muay Thai boxer, and the boxer does parry or block, sure it is effective. But it’s the practitioner who determines if they can make said art work or not, not the art. The only limiting factor in the art is the practitioner. Many people do not practice the art long enough to learn it in its entirety. Without the complete system, you do not have all the tools at your disposal. A lot of practitioners only train up to a certain level and leave their Sifu (or kwoon). The famous Bruce Lee was one such practitioner. Then they believe that is all there is, thus they see it as ineffective because they only know enough or have trained enough to use only what they have experience with. And as for attacking limbs, Wing Chun doesn’t do that. That is a misconception. We will use the limbs of our opponents to jam or restrict their advances using pak sau or gum sau. But it is not attacking their limbs, it’s just a means to an end. Wing Chun also uses brutal force, why would you think it doesn’t? People assume muscle power and large, over-exaggerated movements as brutal force and that is not correct. If I use a firearm on you, and shoot you, that’s brutal force. But there is not much in the way of using my muscles or large motions to pull the trigger. Force is not measured in the amount of muscle power or motion needed, just energy released. Proper body mechanics yields high amounts of energy, released without an over-exertion of force. It’s like that in Wing Chun, Brazilian JuJitsu, western style boxing and several other arts. People are deceived into believing that Wing Chun doesn’t use brutal force because they don’t see large or extreme movements in our arm motions. Nothing can be further from the truth. To the best of my knowledge, it is a concept that's held in most Wing Tsun schools. A few techniques I was shown, involved blocking a punch down, then sliding forward to trap it down while simultaneously striking the other arm down over it to lock their limbs down. Immediately following that movement would be me sliding my first hand up into a chop or some strike to the neck. All of these motions would be completed in the a matter of a moment. I’m sorry to say, but you were taught the technique (and concept) incorrectly. The concept of pak sau/gum sau (slapping the arm/pinning the arm) is used by all Wing Chun kwoons, but your idea and execution of the concept is incorrect. The idea is not to slap the punch down, but inward (at mid-forearm or elbow), towards your opponents ribs, thus pinning or restricting the attacking arm. By doing that you are cutting off the use of the arm (momentarily), attempting to knock them off their stance, and restrict the use of the other remaining hand so as not to be able to launch a powerful counter-attack. Many students learn this concept incorrectly and never understand why it doesn’t work when they attempt to use it. Wing Chun is not a limiting art, only the practitioner limits the art. The Wing Chun system does not lack footwork. It is a complete system, a formidable system, and does not need to be mixed with something else. Most students do not get to the levels needed to see or be taught how to generate striking power correctly or use the footwork in its entirety. Wing Chun footwork is illustrated in the Mook Yan Jong, Luk Dim Boon Quan, and Bat Cham Do forms. Those forms are reserved for only the most diligent, the most dedicated, the most trusted life long students to the kwoon. No one else. So, if you don’t have the complete system, you don’t have all Wing Chun has to offer. Notice I said ILLUSTRATED in my statement above. You can be shown the forms (all of them as a matter of fact), but not explained the use or the ideas of the hand sets or how the footwork works. Without the analysis, the who, what, when, how, where, and whys, it does you no good to train the sets. The tools are there to understand and handle any type of situation, be it punching, kicking, joint locks, or grappling. You just have to understand how to put the pieces of the puzzle together. The hand sets (forms or kuens) should be learned in the following order and are thus for a specific reason: Siu Nim Tao Chum Kiu Mook Yan Jong Biu Jee Luk Dim Boon Quan Bat Cham Do As Traditional-Fist stated, the problem is not the art, but the practitioners themselves. Finding a reputable Wing Chun kwoon is the single most limiting factor of learning the Wing Chun system. Once you have found one, then it is up to you to do what it takes to complete the whole system. Not train bits and pieces or study/practice 2 – 3 years and then quit, assuming there is nothing more to learn. The first 2 forms are just your foundation, and the remaining forms show you how to use the whole system.

Hit them with 3 rounds, dead center in the chest, from a 9MM semi-automatic handgun. If that's too severe, then hit them 3 times in the throat.

What everyone is saying concerning the roots of Wing Chun about a nun and a peasant girl is mostly a legend. This is the most likely scenario to the beginings of Wing Chun. http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/meng/truthrevealed.php

It is important to know your lineage, to know who came before you and made the sacrifices to bring forward the knowledge you are receiving. But it is not the end all, be all of your art. Just know it and focus on how you can become the best practitioner so you can someday pass it on with pride in it's entirety.

What he most likely meant was the sifus training methods were too modern and therefore not to his liking. There is no such thing as modern or traditional Wing Chun. Only the methods used by sifu or how he/she teaches, for the end result, are modern or traditional. The concepts, principles, and theories of Wing Chun will not change, but the execution of said and the way the methods are taught, are always open to interpretation. The only limiting factor in the art of Wing Chun is the practitioner.

I have a Sidai (younger gung fu brother) who did Aikido for 20 years and then started taking Wing Chun a few years ago. He's told me on numerous occasions that there is no comparison of the 2 arts, and that Wing Chun was an all around better art for him. He enjoyed the Aikido, but found it useless against Wing Chun. And I have to say I agree.

I have over 33 years martial arts experience and still consider myself a beginner. I'll be a master on the day I die, because I will not be able to learn anything more after that.

I attempted to PM you some information on how Wing Chun received the name. But because I'm new to the forum, and have less than 25 posts, I'm unable to PM you. If you like, you can PM me an e-mail address and I'll send you something (if you're interested). Most Wing Chun practitioners feel there is no need to perform this (the idea is to use as little energy as possible, so why move), but it is in the system. Or at least, I have been taught it from my sifu and I teach it to my students. It is derived from motions in the Wooden Dummy sets. It is most used by someone smaller against someone much larger in size.

They are the same. Trace the lineage back 3 or 4 generations and you'll most likely see they derived from Yip Man. It is said somewhere around 90% of all Wing Chun practised today came from the Yip Man line. WC and WT, or VT is different because the sifus have a different style of teaching. All of them use Wing Chun principles, theories, and concepts. But the way they teach or the way they express the art is their style. The differnece is the sifus and the spelling. It's basically the same art. In Hong Kong (when it was a British colony), using the initials WC on a public sign meant public Wash Closet (bathroom). So, to keep the general public from mistaking a Wing Chun school from a public bathroom, a number of Wing Chun sifus started spelling it Ving Tsun (VT)or Wing Tsun (WT), so that the initials were no longer WC to be mistaken for a bathroom. And also to be different. That's all it is.

Massa, As others have stated, Wing Chun training should not damage or change your posture. Can I ask, with who are you training Wing Chun (your lineage for at least 3 generations back)? Some sifus have a slightly different outlook on posture and position due to their physical size compared to you. Is your sifu taller than you, shorter than you, have more physical mass, less, longer limbed, shorter limbed, etc. All this comes into play. Or you may be performing your body structures just a little bit incorrectly. You can PM me if you like with your response.

Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum, thought I'd look around and see if I can find anything interesting. I've been in the martial arts for over 33 years. I live in South Carolina (U.S.A.) and I practice/teach Wing Chun Gung Fu. I was wondering if there are any students of Sifu Francis Fong (out of Atlanta, GA) or members of the WCAUSA on this forum. Please feel free to contact me.

Favorite response implies the response you like to use, does not necessarily mean the best. Not sure about a favorite response to a hook punch, but the correct response in relation to the system of Wing Chun should be: 1. Hook to the head - Biu da (simultaneaous biu sau and punch) 2. Hook to the body - gan da (simultaneous gan sau and punch) No wanting to sound arrogant, but using a tan sau or a bong sau will allow the punch to come right around the forearm on tan sau, or over the elbow in bong sau. Of course, you should also shift (or use) your hip as you execute the biu da. However, your results may vary.