northerndragon

'Bushido Man 96', Thank you for post. My perception too; specifically that the forward elbow strike should be less arcing, more of a thrust. Where my confusion occurs is that it is supposed to, by Shotokan tradition, start-&-end in the same place theoretically. This ENDING position essentially makes it less of a thrust and more of an arc. You are correct though that it does not necessarily have to start at the same position as the Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi. The entire sequence of movements when the right fist crosses the chest towards the opposite pectoral/nipple is whereby the thrust loses thrust and become more of an arc. (as in the Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi) To make it a thrust one has to essentially make the elbow's end position off-of/away-from the opposite pectoral/nipple. Adding a reinforced push with the opposite hand changes the Mae Empi Uchi into a Yoko Empi Uchi (side elbow strike), of "sorts".

I am posting this question to see what I may be missing: Q: What is the difference between the Mae Empi Uchi & Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi, WHEN THEY BOTH start from above the right hip? (*in a Left Front-Stance). 1.) Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi - Round elbow strike made to hit opponent's side of body. -versus- 2.) Mae Empi Uchi - Forward elbow strike made to hit opponent's chest or side of body. Questions: Assuming both elbow strikes are executed from a Left Front Stance, left foot in front: ... 1. Are both right fists STARTING from above the right hip? & 2. One is a "round/arcing" elbow strike while the other is a "forward" moving elbow strike. They both seem to follow the exact same path (?), if starting from above the (Shotokan) hip. A Sensei told me that Shotokan executes all strikes, generally, from above the hips. (While other lineages may in fact start a strike from below the ARMPIT. I know for a fact that Seido Karate starts strikes from the armpits). I found by trial-and-error, that if I conduct the Mae Empi Uchi, from a left front stance, right fist directly below the right-armpit, that it "FEELS" to be more forward in nature, versus a round elbow strike beginning above the right-hip. I need to stress the PATH of both elbow strikes for clarification: The right fists cross the chest towards the left nipple in execution of either elbow strikes, Mae Empi Uchi OR Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi. Food for thought, but I'm sure that I am just doing this incorrectly, somehow. Anyone here train in Shotokan that can give an easy answer to this? regards, Eric

Greetings, What might one discern between Shorin Ryu and Shotokan? I've read elsewhere that Shorin Ryu is somewhat related to Shito Ryu and Shotokan, preferably between these two lineages in terms of outward appearances of technique and YET wholly distinct and unique. In and of itself, I might add out of respect for this Art.

Interesting replies. Thanks and good food-for-thought to ponder over. GOM, By practiced 'Shoto' for fifteen years I assume you're referring to Shotokan? So while you were in the midst of those fifteen years training, what did the Sensei say to you when you would execute the kick with the shin or instep while everyone else in this Shoto(kan?) would do it with the toe/ball of the foot? Dobbersky, I've heard that Ashihara is the precursor to Enshin Karate? Something to do with the founder of Enshin being a former Ashihara OR former Kyokushin student. Not sure of the specifics. There's also another offshoot, Kissaki/Kissakai Karate (sp?). regards, Eric (ps: I get the feeling it is ''not pc'' to sign off with one's real name??

GOM, by dangerous, did you mean FOR the person executing the Roundhouse with the toe/ball of the foot or for the poor person on the receiving end? regards.

I was referring to exactly what you are stating in your two types of roundhouse kicks. ..except: I just described them in the numerical order that I did. In Addition: What I may have not been clear enough on was the notion of using the top of the foot for all Roundhouse kicks, due to the strength and structural integrity of the top of the foot. Invariably one can jam their toe(s) depending on the nature of their toes' flexibility. Back to the nature of the Roundhouse preparation. As we both stated, lifting the kicking thigh up parallel to the floor AND/OR lifting the kicking leg until that thigh is parallel to the floor (high), are one-and-the-same. What needs to be clarified is that I was referring to the lower-leg of said roundhouse kick; not the upper thigh of this leg. In Taekwondo/Olympic roundhouse kicks, that thigh is kept "in", not swung out for visual telegraphs to the opponent. Where a traditional Karate Roundhouse tends to take up precious seconds VS. the Taekwondo (or Olympic) is the "hoisting" of the kicking leg Up-&-Out. An analogy being this: the dog lifting his leg to urinate.< I cannot describe it more succinct than that. When one does it this way, hoisting the kicking leg up and out, during the heat of competition immediately telegraphs to the opponent. Even if one manages to snap out that roundhouse using this technique, it is still substantially slower than the Olympic/Taekwondo method. Slower by the mere knowledge of the opponent seeing it before the motion of the roundhouse attempts to make contact.

Mawashi-geri - traditionally done with the ball of foot/toes. I know. I've had prior training in Taekwondo, and from a PERSONAL preference I find the way this lineage does the Roundhouse kick much more efficient, in terms of speed of execution and equally important, structural ease of execution. Are there others on this forum who've trialed Taekwondo in the past, or currently, who also have noted an ease of execution of their Roundhouse when doing it Korean Style? An analogy broken down into numerical order: I find that when: 1- kicking-thigh is brought to parallel to floor then, 2- the lower-leg immediately SNAPS up to parallel or a 45-degree angle than, 3- split second later the Roundhouse is thrown to be much more effective than --> doing it the traditional way whereby the kicking-thigh is executed: A-Up to the side, akin to a hurdlers' stretch, and then B- arcing / swinging it around in a telegraphic way as to say nonverbally: "Here comes my roundhouse to your head, get ready to block it." Lastly, from a personal perspective, I find that the top of my foot is stronger, structurally, then doing the mawashi-geri with the toe/ball of foot. Seconds count, at least in self-defense, but maybe I'll be attacked for posing this question in the first place. It was merely done for discussion purposes, not to discredit the traditional Mawashi-geri in any way. After all, without traditional technique, it would all just be a sport. kind regards, Eric B.

Dear fellow Forum members, thank you kindly for the replies. I have since researched more about a school to join and have labored over this choice. I chose the Shotokan school in my community. It was a DIFFICULT decision to make: scheduling, time, "connection" etc., but the school I decided upon (Shotokan school) seems to be the most logical choice. I have YET to actually step foot onto their Dojo but I'm very impressed with the school, the students, and the teacher as well. I'm looking forward to my first class, very much aware of the fact that my "previous muscle memory'' from my prior eight years of Shaolin Gung Fu and the Taekwondo will certainly play tricks on how I adjust and learn the Shotokan. whew! peace Eric B.

Dear fellow forum members, I'm getting ready to join a Karate school, which teaches Jinen Ryu Karate. Before I do this, I thought I'd inquire from any Karate students what one might expect from the Jinen Ryu style? My past martial "history" has been varied: approx. 8 years in a "northern Shaolin" Chinese martial art; about 1 year in Capoeira, and most recently, 1.5 years of Taekwondo. I have been reading a book on Karate, from author Tadashi Nakamura, titled "Karate ~ Technique & Spirit", copyright '01, Tuttle Publishing. Anyone also recommend any books? peace, Eric