Kill Jill

Nak bob seems to be used for all those dives and flips on the mat. Duk bob is used for the move which involves throwing the body up and landing on forarms and toetips. Perhaps then, you're suggesting it's a blanket term for all falling techniques.

It seems I am getting a bit pessimistic about Taekwondo. Perhaps it owes to today having seen a Taekwondance demonstration which had more hip gyration than Tango. Someone has to stand up and raise a hand in query as to where Taekwondo is exactly headed in the whirlwind climate of reform... Am I alone?

I know that Taekwondo is constantly reforming to reflect the increasing audience, but there has to be some limits into how far it 'dumbs down'... I just received the first edition of the new WTF e-newsletter (you can subscribe via the WTF website) and in it, it refers to something called 'Taekwondopia'. I just had to laugh. It sounds so silly. The context in which it was being mentioned is that the WTF have a vision that their new Korean Taekwondo headquarters which they plan to construct in Muju - absolutely miles from anywhere - will invoke the spirit of olympia, and thus will be named 'Taekwondopia.' What do you think? Soon, they'll be renaming everything. What are they going to call the body protectors? - 'Honey nut squeezy bits'??? Oh lord... By the way, they also announce the 1st ever World Poomsae Championship - to be held in Seoul in September. Does anyone get thrills about watching poomsae competitions? Is there anyone considering going? I just don't know how judging poomsae competitions can be consistent.

In Hapkido, I have only ever learnt in a Korean only class. I was trying to tell some one that I am doing "Nak-Bop" and "Duk-Bop" maneouvres , but failed to come up with an English equivalent. How exactly do you translate these terms?

I admit the India-China link is inescapable. But I'm not out to document the lineage of every martial art since the inception of Buddhism. The question is still The Hwarang... Actually, I was just perusing my notes a short while ago, and I had forgotten I had made notes of the fact that the Chinese characters used to write the word Karate in Japan referred to the Tang dynasty (the first character), and around the turn of the century as Japanese nationalism increased, the 'Tang' character was replaced by another to avoid Chinese association. Thus, perhaps Japan's own reference to China in the naming of the martial art, could perhaps suggest their recognition of linkage of Karate through China rather than Korea. Korea also had initially called Karate as Tang Soo Do - they too acknowledge the Tang link. What's in a name? Still, I don't know why scholars haven't yet nailed the history of The Hwarang. It possibly contains a huge gap in martial arts history.

Thanks - I think I know the chart you are mentioning. Well, I have checked every single English language link on Google for Taekwondo and Karate - I think I've spent a fair amount of time on it! It's just frustrating that everyone in proximity to Korea claims that Hwarang emigres from Korea 'definitely' had some role in Karate. Everyone in Japan, says that if it owes to an outside source, then it comes directly from China, and that the Hwarang played no part. I can't believe that there is no resolute documentation on the nature of the Hwarang. Some sources dispute that they were ever soldiers at all. I don't think that the historical period is so far back in time. For most other nations they have historical evidence of peoples from beyond the birth of Christ. Perhaps this is going to be the focus of some future archeological exploration - hey, that's given me an idea. Perhaps I need to post on archeologyforums.com Okay, well, if any of you can give any authoritative ideas keep posting. Thanks.

Hi, Does anyone here have any extensive insight into the origins of Japanese Ju-Jitsu? It's part of my attempt to place other martial arts in relation to Taekwondo as part of compiling a lineage tree. A point about Ju-Jitsu origins cropped up in the lineage, as I cannot decide whether to solidify the link that Ju-Jitsu in Japan was initiated by some Hwarang soldiers who emigrated from Korea to Japan. Are there any expert historians out there who have done more research than I have? I certainly don't know a lot about Ju-Jitsu - actually, it isn't practiced in Korea as far as I have come across. (That's where I'm based) Cheers

So, do you not believe in the link between the Hwarang from Korea and the establishment of Jujitsu in Japan by those who emigrated from the Hwarang into Japan? I know there is not a lot of actual historic evidence into the exact make up of the Hwarang, but there seems to be a lot of claims by various sources that there was a definite migration of some of these Korean warriors into Japan before the 10th C. It would make natural sense for such a migration, at least. If it's not the Hwarang who started Jujitsu, then who did? Did it just leap directly over from China? Any further tips appreciated

I have to admit that I'm not too familiar with Karate, so was wondering if any of you could give me some pointers. I've been drawing a lineage diagram of the origins of Taekwondo. It includes the following ties: Hwarang from Korea founded Jujitsu in Japan. From Jujitsu comes Judo and Daito Ryu. From Daito Ryu comes Hapkido and Aikido. Of course Taekwondo's closest predecessor is Karate, but I'm not quite sure how to represent this on the diagram. Am I just to put a comment that Karate appeared from Okinawa?

If you're happy with what you're training in, and it works for you, who cares what anyone else says or does. Each style has both its own merits and downpoints. There is no perfect complete system to please all. Usually, others just criticize 'cus they're envious of something. Keep ur cool, and don't let it ruffle you.

Thanks for your responses. Yeah, but ain't it weird to have someone in a class for 2 years and only have a white belt? Already I can show better ability than all the students except two black belts who do have genuine ability. Another reason I'm dubious of belt promotion is that this school charges for each test. Test fees are atypical in Korea. I'm reluctant to pay any more money to this monkey-nuts school. You really should come over one day and see what kind of school I'm at - it's truly crazy! I'm only going there because I surmise that learning something new however little is better than nothing, and there are no other options in my particular area. Sigh. Perhaps I need to import a personal trainer from the States...

How about you guys who have a black belt in HKD - what would you say constitutes a sufficient level in terms of demonstrative ability to be considered a black belt? I've been in Korea for 2 years now, and believe me, 95% of all HKD schools here work on promoting to 'schedule' as one of the above respondents referred to. Some schools have a list of requirements, but it's more a list of requirements that have been taught, than rather skills that have been solidly learned by the students. I'm going to my gym specifically because of proximity and convenience of class time fitting my working hours. I have sampled other gyms previously, but what they teach is largely the same. I'd be interested to hear a list of skills that HKD black belts had to 'master' before they could take the black belt test. Also, I wonder how much importance do you put on the weapons training component as opposed to the self-defense and take-down motions?

I've got a TKD black belt, and have done about a total of 12 months in Hapkido here in Korea. I'm currently in a school under the International Hapkido Federation. I decided to do Hapkido as a supplement to the limited range of moves of TKD. In Korea it's possible to get belt promotion every month. As a result there are many blue and red belts - and even black belts - who cannot show very much, and I think this is terrible. My fellow students are baffled why after many months of training with them (I go about 3 or 4 times a week) I just let myself go as far as yellow belt only. I have personal doubts about ever being ready for a black belt, so am just letting myself amble slowly until I feel I'm making some genuine progress, and then perhaps aim for my next color belt. In my opinion, black belt means that you should be 'really good.' However, I don't even know what constitutes a 'standard' for Hapkido black belt level. Should I be able to spar in any kicking or take-down situation? How is it possible that anyone could master all the different categories in Hapkido within even a few years? Are there common expectations between all the Hapkido schools as far as a black belt goes? How can I guage when I am ready for belt promotion in Hapkido, as there seems to be very little information available - certainly nothing in Korea. Is there even any point in aiming for a black belt in Hapkido, when it seems there are just so many different strands of Hapkido. I certainly feel less of a need to be administered a belt to prove myself in Hapkido as I had felt going through TKD. Does anyone have any advice

Here's another Korean Uni promo vid. This one shows a bit more finesse - but I'll damned about the annoying music... (turn your volume down) http://www.koreayongintkd.net/Skin1/Community.asp?PageName=/Data/BoardRead.asp&idBoardNo=9740&PgCnt=12&idMenuId=20&intCategory=4050&intMenuLevel=1&idMenComid=3509&strUse=Y&title=&cotent=&writer=&key=&PageNum=1

Some breaking... but beauty of it, is that it's all in slow motion, so you can see a break down of the techniques... http://www.koreayongintkd.net/Skin1/Community.asp?PageName=/Data/BoardRead.asp&idBoardNo=9742&PgCnt=14&idMenuId=20&intCategory=4050&intMenuLevel=1&idMenComid=3509&strUse=Y&title=&cotent=&writer=&key=&PageNum=1

yeah, my link works Just wait a few moments for the video to commence... (Allows you to get the popcorn ready...)

Here was a curious video I just viewed - an extract of a program on TKD from North Korea. The video was posted on the net in 2005; I don't know exactly when the program was made. It's not exactly astounding footage, most of the reporting like a 1950's biology lesson, but it's rare to see any record of TKD training in North Korea. (Hope link works...) http://www.koreayongintkd.net/Skin1/Community.asp?PageName=/Data/BoardRead.asp&idBoardNo=9910&PgCnt=15&idMenuId=20&intCategory=4050&intMenuLevel=1&idMenComid=3509&strUse=Y&title=&cotent=&writer=&key=&PageNum=1 (Why do I sweat more when trying to post links than when training in a Korean gym???)

Wow, that's cool man... You're a real hot star now!!!! Yeah, the video seems to pretty much reflect the average Korean TKD circus - minus the kids. So, it's a good hint for anyone wanting to come to Korea to train. The closing music reminded me of the closing of a cartoon program - something a la The Simpsons... They don't seem to try to make any effort to promote TKD in a spectacular way here. It's all odd. Anyway, now, who's coming over to train??

I just wondered whether any of you could perhaps suggest a favorite book that's related to Taekwondo? I sometimes wonder whether a static work on paper can really help you appreciate this dynamic sport. But, if there are any books that I haven't so far uncovered, I'd like to hear about how they've affected you. Cheers. Happy Christmas, too!

I'm in Korea, so I can tell you a bit... If you ever have a chance to come over and experience the TKD scene then it should be very interesting for anyone. It's not all about getting your head kicked in on a regular basis!!! Koreans train every single day, but there is a HUGE range of class types - some are pretty easy and won't improve your skills at all. If you want to train with the best, you should join a university/college taekwondo program. Some of these places allow foreigners to literally turn up almost any time to join in with the training sessions. Some have a special summer camp program - check out the Kyung Hee University July camp. Perhaps you should ask CORALREEFER - I know he is on this board also training in a university here.!!! Personally, if you are getting good training back home, I think you don't necessarily need to come all the way to Korea. The only advantage Koreans have is that classes are on a daily basis. My book is coming soon!

Thanks for your suggestions, guys! I will continue to rummage around to try and find the answer. It's not a life threatening question, but I just felt it would be an interesting piece of trivia to include in my writing on the transformation of the WTF since it started. My point is that how can the Kukkiwon claim not to keep records of such matters? I did actually approach the Kukkiwon directly and even asked them in Korean. Their response just seemed absurd. I wonder if the ATA would ever give such a response. By the way, the day I approached them last Thurs, the tryouts for the Korean national squad were taking place at the Kukkiwon. Some of the contenders were average, some very good. There was a large female representation taking part, too. Perhaps in my couple of hours of attendance, I had somewhere seen the next Korean Olympic champion! Just like the Hanmadang, I did take a couple of photos, but it will take me a while longer to actually finish the whole film and get it processed...

I'm currently doing research on the history of Taekwondo. I just approached the Kukkiwon to ask if they could tell me who the first registered female dan is on their records. Oddly - to me it seemed - they said they didn't know because their records only went back as far as their computer system had been put in place... So does it mean that any of us could just fake having a dan grade before Microsoft came into existence? How else am I supposed to find the answer to my question if even the Kukkiwon doesn't know????

I'm here in Korea, where kids attend classes 5 days a week for typically a coupld of years (then, they never do TKD again, except in the army service!). Because 5 days is quite intensive in any study program, instructors here typically convert one class of the week into a totally non MA class. They will either play soccer, pi-gu (dodgeball) - good for arm strength, or do relay races for the entire lesson. It seems there is more of a P.E. type of activity feel here in the classes, with the attitude that kids can't really understand the idea of becoming a professional adult competitor. They learn the basic skills, and then if the kid remains interested in the sport throughout their teenage years, they will take a diploma course in it at university, where they can only then have the chance to prepare for competitions. Instructors here also run periodical social events such as a camp or outdoor barbeque - the kids seem to be drawn to such an idea of being 'in the club' rather than being a martial artist. There's no point in burning out any kid too early.

My all-alone singles workout on my non-dojang day... Put my feet up in front of TV with a box of chocolates... No, seriously, I'm very impressed with the guy who says he gets up at 4am to train by the ocean. I prefer to get up late so I have more energy for going to the dojang in the evening... But, it's funny, I just read this tip: Only today, I arrived at work early this morning. I saw some balloons stuck to a doorframe whilst walking down a corridor. I looked to see if anyone was watching. Then, cup of tea in hand, I tried a spin kick. The balloons didn't burst. I tried again. I hadn't warmed up, so I strained something nasty, as well as spilling boiling hot tea on myself. I let out a kind of Bruce Lee kihap as a result of my pain, and noticed the cleaning lady standing right behind me. I just said 'good morning' and quickly hurried off into my office. Then, I read this post and laughed. Actually, from this morning's testimony, it's quite challenging to get a balloon to burst. You have to be very accurate. So, perhaps it's really an excellent training method. You just have to be cautious that because the balloons are light, there is an increased risk of injury if you swipe at them full blast.

P.S. Would anyone be offended if I changed my forum name to NUNCHICK??? (Don't respond with comment that it should be something like 'dumbchick' instead...)