Drunken Monkey

haven't seen reloaded yet but um, just a note. in the first film, after neo is shot and "awakens" agent smith attacks and neo defends. did anyone notice that the very simple blocks he uses are wing chun...? or maybe i imagined it.

sorry, guys i never meant for this to turn into an argument. this really is a case of believe or not believe. i'm just saying that i'm a non believer and much of it i guess is because of the wing chun i am learning has been taught to me very scientifically and being a bit of a dab hand at maths+physics, i can see how the forces are working in the structures that we use.

well, kind of. wushu does translate as martial art. however, the chinese government seems to have taken the term wushu as their own to describe the flowery patterns that they have a strict syllabus for. it is all kinda messy but yes, wushu=martial arts. but then, like the guy said, kung fu isn't just martial arts, it is about skill in an art, any art.

exactly the goat stance (yee gee kim yeung ma) only exists in the pre-contact stage. the moment the opponent has moved we would have already stepped in to receive. however, you must remember that it is primarily a training stance from which the other wing chun stances come from.

well, maybe it's because i've seen many guys who say that they've learnt wing chun from books and videos. while they do know the forms, they seem to think that that is all there is do and when they get shunted to the bottom of the class (so to speak) they get annoyed because in their mind, they already know the forms and think that they should be more advanced. martial arts emphasis good foundations and in wing chun, your foundations are laid very slowly. i did about a month of just punching before i even began to learn the first form. and even then i was taught each part of the form very slowly to make sure i get it right. it is easy to teach someone to do a movement right but it is much harder to correct someone who is used to doing something wrong that didn't come out right but i hope you understand what i mean

are you sure about it being used before the ching? it was the ching dynasty that destroyed the temple which caused the spreading of styles into the populace. before them, most training was done solely in the temple and the monks did not use that hand gesture.

a popular way of describing the forms in wing chun is that it is the dictionary from which we pick our words to answer a question. like any launguage, in time you will no longer need the dictionary because you will begin to know the answer to many questions. but there are always times when a question comes that you cannot answer so we have to keep looking in our dictionary so that we don't forget what words we have to use...

well, then there's the point that in order to throw a round punch you have to "cock" your arm back into position first, then swing it out again. in the same time you could've already done a straight punch two or three times... the usefulness of a punch is in it moving forward. to regain its usefulness you have to bring the arm back. in wing chun philosophy, this is a wasted movement which is why we aim to be able to punch from any hand position without the need to "re-chamber" the punch... sorry about the gun analogy but i couldn't think of a better way to explain

there are kicks but they are very much like the hand movements by which i mean that they are simple and direct. also, we don't really learn to use kicks until we have our hands and stance sorted out cos if you get used to kicking too early on in your training, you run the risk of compromising your stance.

well, it is also my belief that much of the mystery comes from trying to translate chinese concepts into english and the translations being too literal.

we don't have any belts or grades or anything. but we all know who is good and who is better. we are like a family where we are all brothers and sisters. guess that's one diffrence between a chinese style and the others...

absolutely. like all chinese martial arts, wing chun takes a long time and even when you embark on the path, where it will take you is up to you to decide. how far you go is also up to you and how far the path goes depends on how long you chose to walk. but remember, have fun. if you don't like it, don't force it.

er, my point was just a response to someone questioning the stability of the wing chun stance.

ahhh, but i see it as as those little elements such as positioning and centres and structures that makes it all work... when it works i feel nothing because the pressure applied to me goes straight through me into the ground and the force is dissipated BECAUSE of structure and position. my main thing against chi is that if it isn't about positions etc then if you are a chi master then you can disregard eveything relating to structures and use only your chi. as of yet i have not seen any demonstrations that do not rely on body mechanics.

but in it's environment i still believe it will be prove itself to be more effective than it seems...

i don't think it's a good idea to attempt to learn from a vid before going into proper training at a school. this is because you run the risk of learning and getting used to little errors that you will have to unlearn at the school. remember, before you can drink my tea you must first empty your cup.

did you mean me??? hey, are you following me??? anyway, my view on the one inch punch... well, i think it is a demonstration technique but the principles are valid and important. part of it is about being to punch from any range. in wing chun, the hands are constantly going from one position to another. that is where it's strengths lie, in being able to move form anywhere and in being able to change our intentions. our attempt at an interception might turn out to be better then expected so we decide to punch from where ever our hand ended up. this may be with our arm down to the side or it may be from having our arm almost at full extension. whatever the position, we are trained to be able to make a strike from almost any position. the "one inch2 simply refers to the fact that even at one inch we should be able to act.

and you have to appreciate the times during which wing chun was developed. eveything is simple and narrow because that was the environment that it was trained in and where it's intended to be used. the older weapons all require quite a bit of space while the wing chun dude only needs to be able to get his hands in front of himself (or herself )

despite how it looks, it is very stable even from the front. my sifu is able to resist a push directly from the front whilst in the stance without budging. he can even remain motionless while standing on one leg in stance. for those who say that you don't fight in the square on stance you are almost right because you would move but you can most definitely receive anything whilst in stance. the strength of the stance lies in the fact that it is designed not to lower your centre of mass although this is an important part, but to redirect all frontal pressures into the ground. on the other hand this also means that any "push" that you make will be coming from the ground up...

well, the baat cham doe does kick ass though...

well, ultimately if it works for you then it's all good. i'm just not a big fan of the magic in the martial. after all, most of it IS just about fighting...

in wing chun when we punch we use the entire body. by this i mean, that we have to be in the correct stance so that the ground becomes the start of the punch. an old wing chun saying translates as "strength from the ground up" and relates to another saying that means "six strengths as one" six being ankle, knee, hip, waist shoulder, elbow and wrist. so yes , the hip is an important part of the wing chun punch because it is part of the stance.

i was always told that the holding of the hands is to physically represent the chinese character for ming which is the moon character (left hand open) and the sun character right handclosed) next to each other. the hands therefore are a symbol of those that were part of the rebellion against the ching people. seeing as most of these people were also trained in the martial arts, it bacame the standard greeting between martial artists.

maybe i'm just biased towards the chinese ways but have you looked at the original chinese poll forms. after all, the staff is THE classic chinese art...

well, it could just be that i'm pretty a firm believer of science. wing chun works for me because it is no nonsense and doesn't bother with mysticism. everything is based on the body, and in particular, your own body so not all moves will work for eveyone. the problem i have with "chi" in the mystic sense is that if it is all true then a move that is used with the correct chi would theorectically work with anyone. and also, most of the demonstrations i have seen that involve stances and posture and how one way is stronger i see only as being a demonstration of body structure. once again, i am not deliberately arguing, just trying to explain myself properly. like i said, this was always going to be a messy topic to discuss.