Drunken Monkey

yes, but how many instances of a nun holding a high position, or even one with such martial experience, at the temple are there?

sorry, american history? there isn't actually that much of it, is there? compared to the 4000 years of writing that there is for china and the however many thousands of years that there is for europe. this is a slightly personal issue and i understand that i'll tread on a few toes here but most of the history of america belongs to the native indians that the settlers slaughtered. this is the real history of the country you live in which the american education system fails to see as being important enough to teach to children.

well, that's one of the inconstancies. since when were there nuns at the shaolin temple? if anything it is more likely to have a omei origin seeing the history of dispute that existed between the two heads of schools at the time before the burning and the rebel movement. (but this might've been one of the myths, haven't checked it out yet)

when we say be aggressive, we tend to mean, don't give any quarter. we train to use elbows the like but don't really use them in free sparring purely beacuse of the dangers. in a real sitution however, you will have to use them. let's take chin na. when you practise them you hardly ever put more than the neccessary amount of pressuer on but when you need to, you will probably apply more pressure automatically. back to wing chun, you can't taht it isn't aggressive, it just isn't OUTWARDLY aggressive. the aim is to be calm enough to be clear of mind and sharp of eye. when the moment is right and you have gained the tiny advantage you needed, you should still be clear of mind and can see the open door through which you pound your opponent with everything you have learnt.

hey, did you wing chun guys spot our moves used in the really close up fight scenes?

er, but guys, jackie trains like a man possessed. you can't base his fighting abilities on the films he makes and you can't say that he is a worse fighter just because he doesn't go around saying how good he is. in my honest opinion, i think that between the two it would be very, very close. as for jet li, the man himself admits that he can't really fight.

probably comes from the old chinese saying "fah kuen, sau tui" (flowery fists, patterned feet). loosely saying that it looks good but that's about it. no frills would imply that it's simple and direct and doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't.

hey, how about the fake schools who make their students think they're invincible? surely that's quite deadly too....

well i still don't believe that wing chun began in the temple. for a start, it was burned because of suspicion from the emporer that it was a base for rebels. this meant that it was deamed to be illegal. i can't see how wing chun could be developed in shaolin when a) it was destroyed b) it was considered a hideout for criminals (i.e under some sort of observation) the one(s) who betrayed the temple were desciples right up until the day the temple was burnt down. if wing chun was being developed at the time, surely he would've known about it.

i love the history, i love the legends and i love the myths. i think the most fun part is sorting the little truth from the big pile of legend. one of the things that makes it a little bit more difficult is that much of chinese history, myths and legends (as well as semi-religious figures and heroes of folklore) have been so mixed and jumbled that it is all taken to be true.

yea, and all shoalin came from one man who travelled there from india. i was not saying that wing chun is better. what i was refereing to was the whole burning of temple, rebels, anti-hing etc etc. at the time of the buring of the temple, the martial arts that had been taught to the ching military was the old (or classical) shaolin styles. in order to defeat the soldiers and important officers, these people on the opera boats had to "create" (or adapt) their style. what they needed was a system that could be learnt quickly, practised on their boats and could be used in narrow, confined spaces (which was their prefered environment when attempting assassinations).

well, like i said, it is still a great art. like card magic. absolutely amazing. you know it's all slight of hand but it is still MAGIC. and a whole lot harder to learn than martial arts...

we're here to make you look good! do you know how hard that is???

because then there wouldn't be any of us rubbish people for you to beat up. see, even us kung fu people are good for something

well, i was also trying to point out that not everything is as simple as hit, block, lock, parry etc etc...

goning to nit-pick you said that there is historical documentation regarding cheung ng. there he is noit legend. also, what he taught was not wing chun and probably looked nothing like wing chun. i still don't believe that wing chun developed in shaolin. it just doesn't make sense that a style that is so intrinsically different to the more traditional styles could come form the same melting pot. there is just so much more real information (as well as a lot of very convincing coincidences) that point to it originating from a guy on a boat. but then again, seeing as it was refined so much by leung jan, who knows?

where did i say i wanted to learn more on the history of wing chun? the story you are citing is one of the false legends that have been taken to be fact. it was NOT developed in the shaolin temple and the "five" had nothing to do with it. historical notes points to a single man who goes by the name of cheung ng who taught his tan sau to the people of the opera boats. anything that is told before this is pure myth that has no real proof. the only evidence that has some substance is the records of events/people centred on the red boat opera troups. also, much of the development of the style after its spread among the opera boats is by leung jan in fatshan (not the shaolin temple).

why did you have to go and ruin it like that...? well, actually, that's not strictly true, cos well, blocks only exist at the moment of contact. so if it blocks, it is not a strike but an interrupted movement. anyway, my intention was to see if anyone can name every single movement in the first form and name their uses...

the story you mentioned is just that, a story. you're right about the origins being a mystery but there is clear eveidence that someone by the name of cheung ng trained a group of people on the red junk opera troups. as for the venerable five, their names and styles and who they taught all very. if you were to belive all of the legends then it appears that these five people invented/originated practically all chinese martial arts after the burning of the original shaolin temple.

and what would a film producer know about martial arts...? man, i know what you mean though. just cos it's on the telly doesn't make it fact. i mean, how much of the news you see is the absolute truth?

also the name of an old book by confusius i think but i might be wrong.

i have a passion for the three section staff. still hit myself on the head too many times to count but when i've got a good rhythm going, it feels great, sounds great, looks great. then there's the nine section whip. never figured out how to use one. haven't even got one but once i've mastered the three section staff, the whip is my next conquest.

tekken 3 still floats my boat. just the right speed, good variety of characters. no overly powerful characters as there was always some way of gettting out of trouble. oh, and setting up stupid float combos with yoshimitsu never felt so good.

well, my opinion is that buy legalising it you start to exert some control over it. the problem now is that it is only available from unscrupulous dealers who make lots of money out of it. if it was legal, the dealers cease to profit from it as much and in turn will cease their supplying of it. look at it this way, alcohol is just as bad for you as marijuana is and it is readily available but not everyone drinks. in fact, beause it is legal, real, sensible discussion about it has taken place. keeping it illegal only keeps it underground, creating a culture out of it, and making it a sign of rebellion which attracts more people than it would normally.

i think the last film i saw that scared me was 28 days later... well, maybe not scared, i think "gripped" is a better word. fantastic characters, beautifully shot, cracking soundtrack.