jion

Are we at the same club?? Firstly, Shotokan, and even more so, Itosu's karate was geared towards school children and benefiting people's health. I'm not an expert on Qigong, but he used many ideas from that in his karate. Funakoshi trained under him, Matsumura and Asato. Both Matsumura and Asato were combat-oriented practioners, whereas Itosu, like Funakoshi, were school teachers. When Funakoshi went to Japan he chose Itosu's karate and not Matsumura or Asato's. A clear example of this is when you compare Matsumura no Passai with Itosu no Passai and Bassai Dai. And I don't mean just the form, but its bunkai. Maybe even Bassai Sho is closer to the original combative kata than Bassai Dai (the Sho version was not chosen by Funakoshi for the Shotokan curriculum). This schoolchildren's karate became what we now know as competition karate. Without Itosu's changes, karate would probably have never left Okinawa. We probably wouldn't be here at all! My firm belief is, there's only one karate. Shotokan teaches and delivers a very high level of physical skill, and a perfect foundation for continuing karate studies. Shotokan is however not a beginner's karate, it is a japanese style of karate (quite different from Okinawan karate), it has lost some of its heritage, but in no way is it any less than other forms of karate. No matter what some of the 'purists' here say. My tip is to learn older versions of Kanku, Bassai, Empi, Hangetsu, etc. Compare them to the Shotokan versions, and practise them with Itosu's and Funakoshi's goal/intention. And you'll see just how much Shotokan has to offer.

Yeah, I thought that was too long for one belt when I changed to my current club. But in the end it doesn't really matter what belt you have. In our brown belt classes we teach the grading curriculum for nidan and the current kata is gojushiho sho. At one point, last year, one intructor was teaching unsu. It all might seem backwards and weird, but in the end it doesn't really matter what colour you have around your waist. Now, I kinda like that freedom or lacking of hierachy. *shrugs* I'm not sure what you meant by "organisational requirement". It does have a down side though. Most hardly ever grade, never subject themselves to the pressure of grading. Mainly because "If you're a black belt, you'll have to prove it every night". I think that's a bit chicken, but they all think I rushed through my belts On the positive side though, we have a lot of brown and black belts, now if they were all black belts our club would look very weird. People, luckily, seem to stick with us once they pass green belt.

I can't judge TKD, but most people in our Shotokan club take roughly 5 to 8 years on brown belt before moving onto black belt, training 2 or 3 times a week. I think someone on this site said you shouldn't measure in degrees of belts, but how many hours trained. A friend of mine is doing her third dan now and has been training regularly since 1983. just thought I'd add that

@swdw Here's a few shot of Funakoshi in kokutsu: http://www.msstate.edu/org/shotokan/new_pa6.jpg http://www.fightingarts.com/content02/graphics/roots_shotokan_2-2.jpg http://www.shotokai.com/imagenes/gichin_funakoshi/osensei2.jpg What's even worse, is the way most people see his stance as inferior or sloppy. I think most people should just try standing like he did for a few months or so and then go back to the deep, over-exaggerated "Shotokan" kokutsu dachi. Besides, our modern day kokutsu is bound to give you hips and back problems. By standing to far down, you're very unlikely to be shifting your weight backwards (which is the whole idea, innit?)

have fun! Keep us updated on how it went

I too have heard the Funakoshi had osteo arthritis in his hips, but I doubt that had anything to do with the appearance of his karate. Funakoshi's son, Yoshitaka, modified karate (much to Gichin's anger) and made the stances lower, deeper and stronger. He was the one that gave Shotokan karate a much more offensive and aggressive appearance and function. However, my stances are getting higher too. After 20+ years of training, my distance has gotten closer and closer to my opponent. I also find that shorter kokutsu-dachi allows for greater weight distribution and pushing forward. Dunno about Nakayama's spine though.

If an instructor had guts he would encourage people to actually go out and learn. He could benefit from new teachings too. Unless his ego was in the way. I'm not loyal to any just one instructor or just one book or just one opinion. Just like Funakoshi wasn't. He had more teachers, hell he even encouraged people to learn old katas ("it can't hurt"). He took kata from outside his school and taught them in Japan so people could get a taste of the wealth of techniques there were in Okinawa. It's not cross training or cherry picking together your own new school without learning the essentials. It's just everyone is built differently and every has to go their own way, just like they did when they picked up that flyer and decided that karate school is the one they should check out.

post Funakoshi Shotokan: Actually in zenkutsu the back foot and front foot are parallel. The front foot is turned inward a little. The back leg straight, almost all the weight on your front leg. The toes are not visible, and your shin should be at least at a 90° angles to the floor, if not more. New Shotokan: Now the foot should be straight. The simple reason for this, is the tension on the knee. The knee turns and twists a little with the foot pointing inward. Although I've never had any problems, it does cause strain. But then again so does training for 2 hours in zenkutsu dachi anyway Personally, I prefer the slightly inward version, just out of habit. I think it's bad focusing on the aethetics of people's stances and not the functional, practical aspect. Zenkutsu is there to push the weight forward and nothing more.

Jiin is similiar to the other "J" katas, Jion and Jitte. I've heard elsewhere that someone suggested it could have be one larger kata (like the Tekki or Gojushiho, actually Gojushiho Sho and Dai 'are' one and the same kata). I prefer Jiin to Jitte somewhat (maybe it's because Jitte's staff defense that is commonly taught is about as much bogus bunkai as I can handle). And I think it is one kata that puts some emphasis one the left hand side. The beginning is similiar to Jitte and Jion (Jion, with reversed hands), but you move the left foot to the right foot before moving backward in zenkutsu dachi. At the end of the kata, you also move the left foot from kiba dachi to right.

It's interesting that you teach Ten No Kata - something quite neglected but Shotokan to the bone - and yet you're looking at grappling in Tekki. Not that it's contradictory, but it's great seeing someone think outside the box and yet stay within limits.

Every kata has a complete fighting system contained within them and protect against all forms of simple attacks (grabs, punches, kicks, etc). It is important to find one that fits to your way of fighting first. I've been studying Heian Yondan for quite some time, although it's an extremely basic kata it has taught me to defend against a variety of attacks I might encounter. Tekki is another great one. I'm also fond of Gojushiho Sho.

And how does the view look like?

Beka, you are right. But these book recommendations should only compliment training. More specifically I am looking for a resource that can let me compare various wrist locks and grabs with the hidden moves in Shotokan kata. Ron, thanks for the recommendations, I'll be looking into them!

thanks for posting b3n. Can't imagine the karate scene without kyokushin.

thanks for the advice guys! Sorry I haven't replied sooner, I was out of town for a few days. I reckon this is the core of the issue. Although there are a few instructors revved up about this new direction in a positive way, some instructors want to continue to believe in the one-punch-one-kill method. Since it's starting to split the club into two fractions (something I want to avoid at all costs), the best thing to do is wait for a bit. Maybe the "tradionalists" will catch onto the new trend. But I bet there are others clubs there are going through the same thing as we are. At the McCarthy I talked to another club that was turning more realistic as well. Unfortunately, getting anything out of those guys was like pulling each word out of their mouths hehe.