daedelus4

I am not personally familiar with the "Sao punch" but, if it is " a round punch that starts above the shoulder, tha punches down and across the body" as described above then I find it very difficult to believe that a Wing Chun player, much less a sifu, would not only get hit once by this technique, but 5 times. However, assuming that this actually took place then my guess is that the sifu is not as talented a fighter as your friend. Unfortunately, many who call themselves "sifu" are either anything but or alternatively, out of practice from teaching only and no practice. Your friend's experience with this sifu is in no wise descriptive of all WC fighters however and you should not take it to be so. Presuming that all WC fighters are like this sifu could be potentially bad for your health.

It seems the line has been drawn and--I have to agree with Hansen.Not only is a palm strike more effective in a real fight (and yes I have used it in real fights, not UFC or some other tourny) than a closed fist but, having your hands up & palm open has the added benefit of making yourself look less like an aggressor in the event the police show up and want to cart your expert butt off to jail. Not to take anything away from a punch, if you have good striking ability and focus so as not to miss your target, then a punch is a great tool. But, it is easier to cause damage to your opponent when you engage in a fight, especially if in the beginning of that fightyou have the knowledge that your knuckles are not hard enough to withstand the impact--did you do your knuckle pushups today? Let's try to remeber what part of the body we are talking about here--you ever hear of "Iron Fist" training? Or is it always "Iron Palm?"--ok,I was kidding, that was a rhetorical question but seriosuly, physically the palms of your hands are capable of taking a whole heck of a lot more punishment than your knuckles and as Hansen said, losing a weapon can and often does cause the direction of a fight to change real fast! Remeber that mind and body post of ovine_king's? after harming your knuckle/hand, whether it be broken, sprained or just swollen will make you less apt to throw it out there as often. I am talking about real life here people--yes, some can go on in spite of the pain but this has ALWAYS been the exception and not the rule! One pragmatic reason why the maxim: "I train so that I will never have to fight" is true is because real fights, on the street, in a bar, or elsewhere, has the ability of not only teaching one how really fragile the human body is and but also teaches the hard lesson of why you should be training for perfection (Injuries suck! whether you notice them during or after a fight) Further, knowledge of the frailty of humansteaches to be forgiving even in your victory. Likewise, it is easier for a woman in danger or merely in a fight to cause greater damage via use of the palms as opposed to a closed fist. Granted some women are brawlers and have the capacity to give some vicious blows but for those that don't, and since it is more expedient for them to cause great damage faster, than a guy faced with a similar situation, I highly reccommend it when available. (I am not a woman, but I finished teaching a self-defense clinic tailored to women about a month ago and it has given me another perspective on fighting) It is just an opinion. Hopefully for those of us reading this post, it is theory that will never have to be tested but, if you find yourself in a fight and you have manged to land a punch--and it hurt--try your palms (Assuming I don't have to mention the elbows, knees, shins, feet, etc.) Sorry about the length of this post. Oh and BTW, nice handle daedelus! I figured someone else had the same handle but for some reason I could not register with my normal handle

I agree wholeheartedly! Not only that, Isnt the palm heel strike more pwoerful than a punch- and I could be mistaken but I could've swore that I read that the bones in your palm are much harder than the cartilage in your knuckles--but as I said I could be wrong.

Actually, I want to compete on a higher level than point fighting but not as high as UFC for the purpose of spreading the efficacy of Wing Chun in actual combat. WC has gotten a bad rap as of late and I want to do my part in changing that perception. Although there are many valuable, useful and effective arts out there, my personal feelings is that WC is one of the best. Not only because of the techniques but also because of the ability to use them in a fairly short amount of time. This is kinda off topic but what is the average time that any of you other WC fighters out there think should be devoted to practice, forms, sparring, etc. before WC shoudl/can be used effectively in a real fight. My guess is that a person who trains hard would be well equipped against most people after on ly 1-1/2 years of training.

Just out of morbid curiousity: has anyone ever allowed yourself to get into a fight even though you are/were confident that you could diffuse a situation for the sole purpose of getting some "fight time" in? I have not done this for a number of years (Pinky swear!) but I must admit that after I had studied for about 4 or 5 years sometimes I would allow myself to be goated into a fight. I remember wanting to get into a big bar brawl like in the movies (dumb I know) just to test myself out in a multiple attacker situation. Anyone else out there have too much testosterone as a martial artist?

The only real similarity that I noticed would be be in a comparison with huen sao in WC. I only studied White crane for a short time but liked it very much. I thought it important to add a style to my repetoire that had more circular movements to balnce the linear strikes of WC. My intro doesnt state so but I have also studied shotokan, taiji and Judo (not to black belk rank) but far enough to get the basic principles. I must admit that like Jeet Kune Do and Straight blast gym's "aliveness" principle about technique, I have a habit of stealing the best of the forms that I see for the purpose of expressing myself in a fight. I have heard it said that not practice, but perfect practice makes perfect.

Kenpo4life: It has been my experience, that if you really want a fight to end then you must use combo's--meaning punch and dont stop punching, or kick if you prefer-- I dont know so much about the combo's used in movies, i have never had a jean claude moment where the guys fought in slow motion and I could really nail them. The best my experience has given is a few well placed punches and suprisingly, joint and elbow locks.

true Lueng ting did come from yip (Ip) man and he is the one who made the big deal about the spelling initially (WC vs. Vsing Tsun). I guess my only contention with your statement was that they are not all the same and in fact can be very different. I cannot say anything about those other styles effectiveness in real life situations though having never studied a system outside of the Yip(IP) man lineage but, from what I can tell even though the other systems may have different ways of expressing WC, they keep the same theories. Probably, they are just as effective. In the final analysis, the different systems are essentially many roads to the same location.

I have never competed in an actual MMA event although i have extensive sparring experience. My wife and her father teach TKD in her home town so I would come in and spar with their class or on occaision if a jr student got out of line by being overly aggressive with either sensei (my father-in-law) or other students we would arrange a little you-dont-know-as-much-as-you-think-you-know sparring with the class. In return I would have my students cross-train with his class but nothing formal. Unfortuantely I no longer live in the same town otherwise he would be an excellent resource but I kinda want something similiar to what is actually used in MMA events like thai fighting, syukoshin(sp), etc. I miss having a full dojo at my fingertips!

menjo: please forgive my typing skills, I am still a two finger typist, what I asked was if the other MA instructors willing to help you train toward your competition goals even though you were not a student of theirs? Or did you become one of their students to acquire the training?

not all WC comes from Yip man, some learned from lueng bik, some learned from chan wah shun, some learned from others, and not all WC styles or even forms are similar, for example the style by randy williams, a pretty well known WC guy in Chicago and who is a very good instructor looks totally different than the WC as taught by william chueng or emin boztepe--which by the way are not the best of friends even though they both were taught WC under yip man, william chueng directly and emin via lueng ting's student

come in with a hurricane? Does that mean be very persuasive? Did you you instructors of other styles receptive to your goals?

thanks for the advice menjo: Question, did you do a lot more sparring to prepare for your tourny experience?

ok, ok, ok, I admit it! Perhaps I was remiss in my comparison of UFC to WWE--sheesh! (smile) I am finding out more and more that sarcasm does NOT translate well over the net. For all of you fans of UFC, I apologize. I only meant that like in WWE, even though you know somes strikes will be made, the match ant over until someone gets pinned--and yes, I know wrestling is fake but, I think it is still good tv besides, you know the talent those guys must have to do what they do? I would be willing to bet that most of them have a martial arts or traditional greco-wrestling background--if nothing else to learn how to land properly. Anyhoo, I did not intend to offend. Thanks for the tip though supergalactic, I am currently checking out som NHB events in my area.

White Warlock:Thank you for your straightforward-ness and no-holds barred honesty. I like to think that I give people the same attitude of honesty and it is nice to get it from others. Unfortunately however, I think I agree with you. I say unfortunately because I was really getting excited about the possibility of competition, I am a really competitive person, but I think you are right and the constraints on competitions will probably prove too restrictive. As it is now, I basically train as if I will be in a competition anyhow so that wont change but, It would have been nice to disprove some of the things that I have heard about WC. Again thank you for your thoughts