shoshinkan

I have limited exposure to Uechi Ryu, and even less to Ishhin Ryu - however I agree in general with your point raised base don what i do know and have seen. Uechi Ryu generally produces really strong, resilient karateka - I think this is down to many of it's training methods (much like Goju Ryu). My observation is also that compared to say a Shorin Ryu karateka (being very general) Uechi and Goju Ryu karateka score less on mobility in fighting, but are stronger and more resilient. Theres good and bad of course, my view is a general one. Heres a very solid presentation of Isshin Ryu karate IMO - http://www.youtube.com/user/SenseiRadunz#p/u

I really like Iains work, and whilst im not a 'commercial' martial artist in any way I respect he needs to earn a living. His work is reccomended to my students, whilst we do very 'different' Ryu his Bunkai is clear, practical and well executed - far better than much other avaliabile material. He is also seems a very nice chap IMO, I only met him once but am a member of his forum. Re changing technical aspects of kata to fit Bunkai, well yes it is reverse engineering but what if modern kata was changed before we got it - perhaps for asthetic or sporting reasons, perhaps to fit the 'budo' form, perhaps because one of the previous Masters wanted to change it - but had little practical experience? The emphasis change to the technical execution Iain shows in his Seisan Bunkai actually fits how our Ryu deliver the kick (we do in Rohai, Passai)much closer than the 'traditonal' modern crescent kick, and I do Seito Matsumura Shorin Ryu as system full of 'old' concepts, So where to draw the line? It sure beats the majority of 'Bunkai' worked in the UK during the 80s, 90s and yes is still far better than most people know today, good on him I say. Other leading Western minds IMO are McCarthy Sensei, Vince Morris Sensei, all have extensive backgrounds and experience and present very good 'Bunkai' IMO, not all of the time but alot of the time.

One of the early Okinawan karate writers wrote something along the lines of - many karate technique should be applied to a stunned or prone opponent to finish them. sorry at work and books at home but if you consider much of the kata content it could well be very true.

Well it depends on your view of what Bunkai is really, From Funakoshi's early writings it's apparent he taught the movement as a throw, and that makes allot of sense. But what he thought has little to do with modern Shotokan clearly! I personally do not see any logic in the movement being a double strike, but each to their own. I teach a basic Bunkai and then variations around it, I see the majority of karate techniques as having specific primary application, but also other uses (and if I felt a double punch would work in reality then that would be a fine example of a good variation for me). A nice answer to why 3 reps, well I don't have one but I have agreed with myself it is most probable it was just done to emphasise certain techniques when in line, train both sides and to get you back onto the original foot. When done on different angles I believe the 3 rep's are showing the different entries, outside, inside and down the line. [/img][/url]

The 2 best ways of looking at the differences, generally would be - 1. the kata sets are often different in technique, principles and strategys 2. the common methods of training again are different Of course there is alot of mix up as well, so it is difficult to be clear. There is of course common ground as both arts were developed on Okinawa, but the same they are not IMO.

'I would say the ideal training would be MMA. Anything else is like taking badminton lessons to get good at tennis.' yes fair point, I guess I was thinking more of the best way a more traditional martial artist could compete with a chance of doing well, I havent seen much MMA training so im not that aware where the sport is going.

from my limited exposure to MMA tournaments it would seem a good starting point for training would be BJJ and Thai Boxing training, not karate - classical or sports. The UFC guys and what have you are seriously conditioned athletes first, something most karateka simply are not, myself included.

yes we have alot of tai sabaki work, or body change as we call it. generally it is to avoid being hit AND placing us in a posative position to hit or whatever (often same time) whilst reducing the attackers options for their 2nd attack. The main tai sabaki drill my students work is with metal practice knifes, simply avoid multiple attacks and dont get hit by the knife, done in a flow it is very effective training to get moving. think footwork, however subtle.

thankyou, nice to be wanted!

Hi Good People, I train/teach Okinawan Shorin Ryu in the UK, I have been a registered member a while but forgot about this site! Thought it would be polite to introduce myself. I hope to be able to discuss karate with you all, if anyone gets around Sussex or Kent let and fancy's some training me know, I have met soem good friends from various forums (and some nut's, LOL). Im off to have a look around the site.

Makiwara, its being discussed a lot lately. For me its essential and makes up pert of my training, an important part along with heavy bag - they are very different. Of course you need to train sensibly, and have a decent makiwara that is safe to use. After 3 months of makiwara training, many of my training partners were 'jumping' away from strikes that before they would have been happy to recieve in sparring and partner drills, its a 'kime' development tool that helps with our own body alignment - more structure when we hit is more applied power. If your training older style karate and include self defense in your view of what karat eis for then personally i see makiwara training as essential, many okinawans seem to agree - they invented karate.

for neko ashi dachi I have 90% on the back foot, the length of the stance is the same as shizentai dachi (natural step length). IMO it is a totally transitional stance, like zenkutsu dachi (front leaning stance) and jigotai dachi (horse stance) - none of them are fighting postures. I am finding out about the relasionship of stances and have found that my naihanchi dachi (shoulder width) is the same as my shizentai dachi, and the same as my sanchin dachi - these stances would be my only choice for fighting postures, kamae if you like. This seems to have merit when looking at historical photos of OSensei Nagamine and OSensei Motobu. Back on subject I use nekoashi dachi in kumite for front kick defense and 45 degree movement to the side, taisabaki. but never stay in the stance, it lacks mobility and strength. also use it to 'recieve' an attack and spring out of it with offence.

totally agree Angela, however a block can also be a block (if you dont move, or react quickly enough) - it stops you getting hit! When training this I always use the double bone block and 'strike' the attacking limb, hard. Its surprisingly effective even against stronger opponents but is a desperate measure, but reality can be desperate.

I think its important that women are treated like men and men treated like women in relation to karate. However that doesnt rule out the respect that we should show our 'partners' when training and in my mind the degree of contact should changed according to each individual and their expierience and skill, not sex. from my expierience women tend to be extremly skillfull in martial arts, often putting us blokes to shame anyway....................... Ah and yes women spar with the men where I train

matsubayashi - eastbourne, ireland seito matsumura - sevenoaks, sussex seidokan - london theres more shorin ryu out there if you look hard enough, but hardly any in comp to the main systems

Whilst there is a conditioning benefit from training against a 'stiff' makiwara I think its important to look at what were trying to actually achive. Personally i like the concept of focusing power 'into' the target, for me I need to contact and deliver power at least 4-6 inches into the target. If your makiwara only gives 1 inch, or nothing you are not achiving this, the shock is transmitted back, which just cant be good for you long term, its also not good for releasing the energy into the target. This is my view for thrusts, the view on strikes is a little different as you are not driving through like a full bodied punch, the less give wouldnt be a problem as much, however training strikes on a makiwara with give is fine as well. Part of my karate is about looking after ourselves and longevity in the martial arts, I want to train the way I do for as long as I can, this meant radical changes to the way I trained a while back - its like the karate master and his knee brace from training far to long and low zenkutsudachi, madness!

Good luck Jimmy, Shorinkan looks a superb style and organisation, you landed on your feet there!

yamesu, Your makiwara sounds a little 'stiff', no offence as you have obviously gone to some efforts to build it. The only 'solid' makiwara that I have researched is essentially a log with four cuts down it to give some 'give' when struck. However this is not for training tsuki but for training strikes - knife Hand, back fist, hammer fist etc etc. My research is a little thin on this area but this is what I have found so far. Please do not take offense, but punching anything without any give is not recomended, the shock simply goes back into you and can lead to problems in latter life as we are dealing with small joints (knuckles, wrists, elbows).

seeing them is one problem. Applying them is the other. this is where kumite comes in. Elbows And Kness, you are of course right. And this is where most dojos fail IMO. You have to apply your kata principles in realistic kumite drills and against realistic street attacks to get karate ! If you dont do these things then your doing something different, not karate as it was and is meant to be trained. However I do forget that people train for different reasons so my way isnt for everybody, and thats fine to. i left karate after 12 years hard study to find 'reality' , i trained in thai boxing, judo and wingchun to a basic level, 'realistic' arts IMO. However the penny dropped that it wasnt the arts that were more effective but the application and training. I have now returned to karate and find everything I need within okinawan shorin ryu................it was always there but my instructors didnt know it, and i didnt find it........................... its fair to say my 'karate' is radically different from my old training days and I research its authenticity all the time.

no one said they were the BEST way to train throws ultimatly, just they do trian the motion of throwing for solo training. i think its fair to assume that kata is the backbone of all classical arts, and therefore all techniques must appear within forms - or they are not passed on correctly. Obviously its down to us with what we do with them, how we apply them, what we see in them.

IMO Fish, you are right. however the motion must be drilled against a resisting opponent and various attacks to gain some value. extreme example but learning the theory/priciple from a book/instructor is nice, but drilling 'teaches' you the theory and principle.

I cna only comment on my expierience and that is once i have analysed a kata, ie removed the repeat movements im left with about 1/3rd of the kata most times, to use in the following way - kihon pair techniques (bunkai) Randori kumite (against likely attacks) As I try and understand the principle I try and get a very simple bunkai to each 'set' or single movement and drill that, hard. I then explore the other possabilitys of the technique ensuring to keep the key principle active. This normally gives me 3 (on average) possabilitys from each 'piece' of the kata, however they fundamentally look very similair in motion. Looking at kata in this way was/is proberly the biggest revelation (technically) in my karate practise so far, apart from some of the ethical and wellness aspects that im begining to see now. But the most important thing is to remember, rome wasnt built in a day and bunkai is just part of the art not the whole art, no more imporant or less important than the other parts.

Jumping is common in many japanesse styles however, from my expierience okinawan styles tend to 'skip'. However wether it be jump, skip or turn makiwaramans point is valid, it can sifgnify a throw or takedown, and the motion does train the body without a partner if mechanically performed correct.

please contact me to let me know what is avalaible, im after most things - except makiwara as makiwaraman has sorted that superbly.

Sensei Morio Higoanna (spelling !) also did 2 tapes specific to hojo undo, they are superb IMO. Anyone know where to get proffesional quality hojo undo kit in the UK PLEASE !