Traditional-Fist

The area under the heart is a legitimate target in Wing Chun, as well as other kung fu styles. Some karate styles such as Okinawan Goju-Ryu use this area as a target in their mid section strainght punching attacks as opposed to Shotokan that uses the middle of the solar plexus as target in its basic mid section thrust punch. Iin kung fu you can hit this area with various types of fist formations including the dragon fist and the vertical fist, as well as palm strikes such as the ones used by Tai Chi and Dragon stylists. The damage to the heart is more to do with the penetration of the energy of the punch rather than mere impact. Of course, if the impact is strong enough there will of course be damage. This means it is not merely knowing where to hit as one has to be able to hit the right place accurately and in the correct manner, i.e. years of hard and authentic training with a real kung fu or karate master.

How most people naturally deal with this type of thing is to either cover themselves or try to protect themselves/fight back in an incoherent manner, that is unless they have previous experience in another martial art. I bet that was to encourage him to take up martial arts in the first place. I have nothing against "simple sparring" as it is part and parcel of kung fu training. What I meant is that over emphasis on so called "realistic sparring" from day one is not part and parcel of authentic kung fu. What you have just described is not what I had meant by "dynamic". Sparring is also part and parcel of kung fu training as long as it is not enphasised from day one. There are no none sparring kung fu classes that are authentic. Real kung fu needs real sparring, but not from day one. I disagree. Importance of stance training cannot be underestimated in most authentic kung fu style training. One of the reasons that real sparring practise is carried out later on in training is to avoid the compromise of proper stance, and movement in stance, in favour of "bouncing" like a kick boxer or TKD-ist, for example. What you are describing here sounds like good honest kung fu training, in parts peculiar to Hakka Boxing, probably Chow Gar of the Ip Shui linage. If so, this style does not stress stance training in the same way as many of the more "orthodox" kung fu styles. Congratulations, as you have probably found an authentic kung fu school. That will depend on ones patience/school and the century in which one may have have decided to take up kung fu. However, 10 years does sound like a bit too much. Yes! But not the way it is being practised by most people I have seen here in London. Yes, but the students trainned with real masters and trained everyday. And even so, some say that weapons and the principles of the style were taught first to maximise the time/effectiveness ratio of the fighters..... .....and maybe that is why the basics were applicable from day one. Without a solid stance and foundation and correct breathing the above amount to only superficial skills. Were you studying authentic/traditional Wing Chun or was it a modern style? It is my understanding of southern mantis that a great amount of enphasis is placed on Chi-Kung training and basics (in such a way that would probably send an average MMA-ist into eternal boredom if not a coma), of which you have not mentioned anything. Do you indeed practise Southern Hakka Praying Mantis?

I am in agreement with you, although I am not too sure about the percentages, . I would also add that many potential students having attended an authentic kwoon and not having participated in full contact sparring and other "dynamic" activities in the first 2 sessions, never come back and instead choose the local kick boxing gym where they will go on to learn "real fighting". So our culture in the West has a lot to do with at least some of the shortcomings in the CMA arena. I am glad to say there are real kung fu kwoons around, not many, as you mentioned,but they can be found by those who are really interested in learning real kung fu. The old saying: "when the student is ready the master will appear" seems to be relevant when it comes to kung fu training, at least for some people.

Agreed. Good point. Realistic Sparring is a fact of life in any real kung fu school. Even if more often than not the bases have to be grasped and mastered to a degree before it is attempted. As for weight training it is important to add that its main purpose in kung fu is to create resistance power for the muscles and tendons, i.e. no "pumping" or relatively large muscle mass development.

Well put TigerCrane. And there are kung fu schools/sifus nowadays that train their students with the warrior aspects of kung fu in mind, that means they prepare them for effective and no nonsense battle. Unfortunately (at least for the impatient students) battle readiness can take rather longer than some of the more modern martial arts, but hey, no art is perfect I suppose, not even kung fu,

Thankyou very much, very interesting links.

Be prepared for some hard and inspirational training. Let us know how it goes.

Talking about kung fu, I would like to make a significant comment. All major styles of kung fu contain, what westerners might call cross-training aspects. However, they have these within principles and methods characteristic of given styles. That means Northern Mantis ground fighting will fall within principles of that style and not of North American or Greco Roman wrestling. So will their takedowns, takedown defenses, hand/arm, foot/knee/leg strikes. The same is true for Wing Chun and other major Shaolin Arts. In short, most major kung fu styles are complete fighting arts that cover all realistic scenarios. Does this mean that each art contains every fighting technique under the sun? Of course not. What it does means, is that they have applicable defenses and principles that cover all scenarios. So what is the problem? The problem as always is the lack of decent kung fu schools with decent kung fu masters, not to mention dedicated and patient students who are willing to put time and understanding into such a profound art. That is why so many McSifus go around introducing outside aspects/techniques into their arts that already do exist within their kung fu, if they only knew. However, being McSifus, many of them introduce aspects that are in conflict with the original principles of their style of kung fu. Of course, the new additions are marketed as "Modern", "New and improved","More Effective", "Quicker to master" and so it continues. The image created is that Kung Fu is somehow lacking important aspects, such as would you believe ground fighting, 'boxing hooks' etc., where the only thing that kung fu is lacking is good authentic schools and teachers. Don't get me wrong, there are good schools, but in the minority. That means that they are not the image/opinion makers. So to conclude, the chinese WERE crosstraining (within given principles and methodologies), thousands of years before the this type of training was discovered by today´s NHB fighers and modern kung fu "Geniuses"/"Gurus", fighters.......Mc,Mc,Mc.

I would like to know more, please. The web site would be very helpfull. Thank you.

What he is saying can also apply to Wing Chun as well as many other kung fu styles. The forms of Wing Chun have weapons applications as well. This does not mean that Wing Chun is not suitable for unarmed training/combat. I believe that the sensei in question is just looking into a "new" angle in the enchant art of making $$$$$$ and that is my opinion.

Many great posts. Just remember that one of the secrets of martial arts is REPETITION (of course with undertanding of the techniques you are repeating.) The more you repeat the more you will understand and feel the techniques and their various meanings. With constant repetition, you will soon understand that there is more to karate than you thought. Also, remember the old saying "Five years, One Kata." (Or at least, something to that effect). Try to get your hands on some karate books written by Okinawan masters.

This is a typical type of problem faced by cross-trainers. It is best to remember that different styles have different concepts and methodologies, and it is normal that some movements/techniques in one style to feel more comfortable than the equivalent in the other. Some styles will require a certain type of a guard and weight distribution and others will require a different type. My suggestion is to concentrate on one art and of course kung fu would be be my preference, and give up the other so that you don´t end up mixing concepts and theories, which will slow down your general progress. However, if you just want to learn to fight as quickly as possible and just like full contact sparring, then give up the kung fu. Remember, if you are practicing kung fu, you are training in a very profound an rich art, mixing that with a relatively simple art such as kick boxing, then you are asking for confusion and dare I say "cross-problems". If you come to really understand one of the arts (wether kung fu or kickboxing), to the point where you are happy and comfortable with its basic requirements, then you can start training in a second art if you really want to. Hopefully, this way you can minimize any arising confusions.

I have not heard it in those terms. I have heard the remark that all Asian martial arts have been influenced by shaolin. Wether all of them have, I don´t know, but I do know that most of the major ones have. Also, we must remember that all of the shaolin styles were not created in the temple. Some styles had existed before the founding of the shaolin temple. It was much, much later that they came to be integrated into the shaolin system, meaning that not all fighting systems had originated in the Shaoling Temple. It is also worth researching into the main Wudang styles of kung fu, namely Tai chi, Pakua and Hsing I.

Google, "new jersey wing chun ving tsun", (without the quotes). You should get some relevant results.

Hello redii, First and foremost pay special attention to the above advice from HG. There are many people in the world who will try to hold you back, not because of any short comings that are yours, but because of their own personal shortcomings and unresolved issues. So, don´t pay any attention to 'nay-sayers', unless they are experts who may be cautioning you about certain types of excercises and so on. Training in a good traditional karate school in japan will take care of any character weaknesses that you may have. All you need to do is to take the first step and enter the dojo and train and train more, without even thinking about giving up. If you follow that advice you will eventually have a strong spirit (budo/warrior spirit), which is a fundamental part of traditional japanese martial arts study. I.E. You will have guts. It just takes a lot of work on your part, that is once you find a good traditional karate school. Good luck. Traditional-Fist