korin

Thanks for all of the feedback. Food for thought. I'll a take a look around for that book. BTW, Shorin Ryuu, I was looking at getting Okinawan Karate: Teachers, Styles, and Secret Techniques by Mark Bishop have you read it? Atleast for me, at the moment all of this is a moot point. I've only been practicing karate for just over two years and I work on my Pinans and Naihanchis with fervor. I've only just started an easier "BB kata" (Jiin) for my shodan grading next year. I have had feelings of contempt for more advanced classmates who can't remember their Pinans, but I've also been thinking about what I was talking about before. I guess we'll talk about this again the next time the question is posed. Until then, cathal - wasn't advocating only learning only 2-3 katas, just asking how many do we need, how many can we really maintain well, and do we need to keep the Pinans in our practice routines once we've passed that point. think about it. later

Ok, point taken 2-3 was a bit of an hyperbole but you know what I mean. The number of katas around in Okinawa 150-200 years ago were probably less than half of what's out there today. On top of that, schools or teachers were not as open as they are today, they were very private and students were selectively chosen, usually coming from family, friends or friends of family. How much information was shared? How many techniques and katas did one "school" have access to? Perhaps not until karate was more public and students had multiple teachers did studying more and more katas become the norm. (Anyone know any good books on this?) Anyways, I think more time on fewer katas is the way to go. I think that although they are a very useful tool, students can survive without the Pinans/Heians in their later karate studies. Though I don't advocate forgetting them all together. Getting away from the 2-3 thing, what are people's thoughts on the second half of this and my last post, 3 or 4 up? PS. I was trying to think of the name of the guy who only learned the Naifuhanchi (sp?) when he was young. (Okinawan history) The teacher who taught him Naifuhanchi refused to teach him any more after he found out he was street fighting. Choshin Chotubu? nicknamed Monkey boy. Something like that, Shorin-ryu students might know. Perhaps a good case in point.

It's been a good read so far but no one's brought up the point, that in terms of old-school karate, a student may have only studied 2-3 kata's in their entire life. I'll play the devil's advocate and say, "Do we really need to keep up on our Pinan/Heian katas, a set of katas, that were developed 100 years ago so that beginner highschool students could learn karate?" It's true we can always develop the basics from the "learner's katas", but Itosu created them by borrowing techniques from the traditional katas. Once you've begun your studies as a BB why not get everything from source? I think a lot of people's training suffers by "biting off more than they can chew." Perhaps focusing on a few may be the way to go. How many katas can you really improve on during 2 hour practice, during a year? And as to instructing, I think most BB who have developed some of the more advanced katas, and may have forgetten a Pinan/Heian kata, can take a look book and be able to perform it very well within 10 minutes. Most beginners can pick up a Pinan/Heian kata in a day, how long would it take an experienced practitioner. Just my two bits.

our school has tests every four months. Usually, up until a student's testing for shodan, my sensei will recommend challenging the test. For those testing in 10kyu - 7kyu it's pretty much a gimmie. From 6kyu - 4kyu, failing promotion happens, but only if some glaring mistake is made. 3kyu-1kyu, I'd say about 30% fail, most commonly because they made some fundamental error in their kata. For the dan test's, the sensei will talk to a student if he thinks they are not ready and recommend that they work on their kata for another four months. Most adults will wait the extra 4 - 8 months before taking their shodan test. However, it is Japan and a lot of the students are in Jr.High and Highschool and they give it a go every test. As a result, from the past two tests, of the 13 tested, 5 got the grade.