Skeptic 2004
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Shorin-Ryu
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Okinawa
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Experiences with Capoeira
Skeptic 2004 replied to NightOwl's topic in General Martial Arts Discussion
Capoeira shares roots in being a dance-fight-game developed by the Afro-Brazilian slaves in Brazil, hence its aesthetics. There was a time when the practice of Capoeira was outlawed by the Brazilian government (shortly after 1888 when Brazil abolished slavery) and the movement went underground (the Black/mestizo Brazilians constituted most of the practicioners at the time, so it was unseemly to the White/Euro-Brazilians who held most of the power). It was during its underground phase that Capoeira was set upon by Brazil's criminal elements. In short, these elements turned Capoeria into dirty fighting. They used to conceal knives and/or razor blades and used them when an opportunity presented itself during execution of a technique. The fighting was so effective that the police couldn't combat it unarmed. Thus, there's more to Capoeria than meets the eye. -
I recommend getting a copy of John Sells's Unante. It is the most thoroughly researched and comprehensive text on karate history to date.
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There are two things which I find fascinating about the beginnings of Wado Ryu from historic/stylstic perspective. First, Ohtsuka did not begin training with Funakoshi until he was almost 30 years old, which complicated or at least gave the appearance of complicating his adjustment from a grappling art to a striking art. History bears out that he did just fine inspite of the age barrier. Second, he learned from Funakoshi because he wanted to learn how to hit. He felt that the atemi he was taught from his jiu-jutsu training was too weak, and he wanted a way to finish his opponent. Absolutely fascinating. I hope anyone who does Wado gets a chance to see the ~1965 video of him doing kata. I think it's a Tsunami Productions video.
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Amen, brother. I wrote a pretty convoluted article more than a year ago on this same subject (and if you want to read it, let me know and I'll point you to the right link), but what it boils down to is along the lines of what Shorin Ryuu has been saying: sometimes a punch is just a punch, a kick just a kick, and a block just a block. Unfortunately, people do not train these techniques well enough to perform them with the requisite destructive power and technique to make them effective. As a result, we have a host of "creative" meanings; "Gee...my punch just doesn't feel strong enough...maybe this isn't a punch...maybe it's supposed to be a throw. Hey! That's it." I think individuals who are searching for meaning in kata should go back to basics and really examine the science of their movements. Take the punch for example. How are you punching? Are you just flinging a fist out there? How does your body begin to move the moment your hand moves? What is your posture? How are you breathing? Where is your weight? How much pressure do you exert at your feet? In your calves? In your thighs? When do you start to move koshi? How do you put in hara? How tight are your tendons in the forearm? Which knuckle do you use to strike? At what point do you kime? How far is the kikomi? What is your timing? These are just a fraction of the questions one should ask as they do kata, and these only cover one technique - a punch. These questions must be answered precisely; my toe being a fraction of an inch off during execution can literally mean the difference between an effective, destructive punch and a strike with half that power. When an individual understands the execution of technique to that level of detail and strives to perform at that level, a simple meaning in a kata such as a punch-kick-block sequence is effective and destructive to your opponent. If you don't understand the science behind your movement, you will either execute a movement wrongly or assign a wrong meaning to that movement: both meaning and execution are degraded as a result. Err...enough rambling *goes back to the nowhere that he came from*
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It's also called Jitte
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Then I guess my dojo is ludicrous. There is no rank other than sempai-ship. The dai-sempai is the guy who has been continuously training the longest (30 years). Having gone from a ranking system (reaching shodan) to one where there is no rank, I prefer the system without rank. My instructor stopped wearing his belt 20 years ago (long story) and has not given out rank since then. His students who still train with him gave up their belts as well. It is actually quite liberating on both a conscious and subsconscious level when we're all equals - my instructor says, "We're all just a bunch of guys who really love karate and like working out together. I've been training longer, so if you want, I'll show you what I've learned." It's a simple, realistic philosophy, and my training and growth have jumped leaps and bounds since adopting his idea and working with him to become better at karate. Needless to say, we don't have small children in my class, nor do we attract younger people. I'm the youngest student (at 24), and the average age of these guys is mid-50's, and their average training duration is between 15-30 years. We are not part of any large martial arts organization; my instructor struck out on his own after his teacher passed away in 1969. I'm not sure how well our system would work with a younger, more impetuous demographic, or if we were under a large organization.
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Shorinkan Shorin-Ryu is not a bad place to get your start. I began with Shorinkan myself a few years ago, and it gave me a very good foundation. I've long since branched off into a different flavor of Shorin-Ryu, but Shorinkan is still my roots. I think I may have met Mr. Green when I visited Kyoshi Perry's dojo about 2 years ago. If he is who I think is, you're probably in good hands.
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A little known fact: Miyagi Chojun was still training with Higaonna Kanryo when he met Itosu Ankoh. After observing Itosu's karate, he asked Itosu if he could train with him and learn Shuri-te kata. Itosu politely told him no. Why did Itosu turn Miyagi away? Because he observed that Naha-te and Shuri-te were inherently incompatible. You couldn't mix the two without significantly diluting them because the two worked on opposing principles. And significantly diluting them would take away the effectiveness of both. Naha-te's use of hara is completely opposite of Shuri-te (Naha-te generates power from the hara by lifting it for the osae; Shuri-te generates power from hara by dropping it for the osae). Naha-te's blocks are close-in, designed for upclose fighting; Shuri-te's blocks reach out to meet the opponent. Naha-te is inherently defensive; Shuri-te is inherently offensive. Itosu told Miyagi that his Naha-te was very strong, and Itosu did not want to weaken him by teaching him Shuri-te. He told him to stick with Higaonna. While Itosu did indeed train some Naha-te kata (Niseishi, Seisan), he "Shuri-tized" them. He turned the Naha-te moves into Shuri-te moves (for example, in Itosu-Seisan, stances that are normally Sanchin stances in Naha-te became cat stances for Shuri-te). If you were to mix Shuri- and Naha-te kata, you would end up either having to Shuri-tize them or Naha-tize them. Trying to do both...well...would be counterproductive. Higa Yuchoku was one of Miyagi's strongest students and one of the most senior - had he stayed with Miyagi, he would have been the dai-sempai and possibly even ato-tsugi. When he met Chibana Choshin and saw Chibana in action, he decided to learn some Shuri-te. Eventually, he left Miyagi all together - there were no hard feelings since Chibana and Miyagi were friends. I'd venture to say that Higa Yuchoku left Naha-te because he couldn't reconcile it with Shuri-te and decided to go with just one. This isn't meant to rain on anyone's parade. This is an interesting theoritical exercise. I'm just not sure how it would actually pan out in application.
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Chibana Choshin used to play sanshin (lit. "three strings"), a three stringed Okinawan version of the Japanese shamisen. While I've recently found out that a lot of Okinawans play sanshin, Chibana used to play it to maintain dexterity in his fingers. He punched makiwara all the time, and if not for playing sanshin, he would have lost dexterity in his fingers.
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In terms of martial arts, from what I've read the Tengu are mostly associated with ninjutsu. According to folkore, the Togakure Ryu style of ninjutsu is said to be descended from Tengu from the mountains in Iga province. Ninja played on the mythology of the Tengu by wearing Tengu masks when conducting certain missions. Some of the "supernatural" abilities patusai listed can probably be done by a skilled ninja in a Tengu mask - except the whole shape-shifting and dreams thing. The white haired Tengu Sojobo is widely believed in Japanese folklore to have taught Minamoto Kuro Yoshitsune fighting techniques when Yoshitsune was a youth and training to become a priest on Mt. Kurama.
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Fa-jin is supposedly a massive discharge of internal energy. Physically, it's explosive power from little movement. Back when I messed around with pa kua, I was introduced to fa-jin while doing some basic circle walking exercises. While I had trouble most of the time, there was one particular strike where I sort of got the hang of fa-jin. Having delved deeper into my karate training, based on my experiences and the muscle kinetics at work, I've come to the conclusion that physiologically, fa-jin is the same as kime. Understanding kime, I can do the same pa kua strike much easier, a lot easier than I did when I was concentrating on my "qi."
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Two individuals - yourself and Stonehart - mentioned Shorei-ryu as an American derivative, but the gist of the conversation concerned confusion over the Okinawan "style." This is not the first time such confusion has aroused (nor will it be the last), so I felt compelled to clear it up. The last line of my post was not definitive as I allowed for the fact that somone could have indeed created a Shuri-Ryu based on their study of Shorin styles. I was just too lazy to google Mr. Trias - I'm in the middle of writing a paper that determines whether or not I graduate this semester. I'm actually fairly familiar with the history of karate in Hawai'i (seeing how I live and train here), and Okinawans had been practicing te in Hawai'i since at least 1900 when they began to immigrate here. They formed an instructor's association in Honolulu in 1933 called the Seinenkai, implying that they had established dojos and were teaching students (no haoles, of course) on Oahu since before then. Yabu Kentsu visited in 1927 and Chokki Motobu in 1932, and during these stays, they accepted and trained local students (no haoles, however, or naichi if I remember correctly). The bottom line is that except for Mr. Trias and the Shorei-Ryu off-shoot from his lineage (I'm presuming), I've done my homework.
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Chosin Chibana was the first to designate any of the te practiced in Okinawa with a Japanese Ryu name, renaming his practice of Shuri-te "Shorin-Ryu" as early as 1928 (the kanji can also be read "Kobayashi", and that is the name that ended up sticking to distinguish Chibana's Shorin lineage from Nagamine's "Matsubayashi" or the Chuan Fa/Shaolin influenced "Shobayashi" whose kanji can also be read "Shorin"). Miyagi Chojun followed suit, renaming his practice of Naha-te "Goju-Ryu" around 1933 (?). "Shorin-Ryu" and "Shorei-Ryu" were the Japanese Ryu names used to distinguish between Shuri-te based and Naha-te based styles respectively. Classically, karate was never sorted into Shorin vs. Shorei. It always came down (and continues to come down) to THE THREE BRANCHES: SHURI-TE (te developed and practiced in Shuri, mostly influenced by the indigenous te) NAHA-TE (te developed and praticed in Naha, mostly influenced by Chuan Fa and other Fuzhou and Fukien Chinese boxing styles) TOMARI-TE (te developed and practiced in Tomari, an amalgamation of both Shuri-te and Naha-te attempting to combine the best of both worlds) I stress THE THREE BRANCHES, because if it has anything to do with karate, you can always trace it back to THE THREE BRANCHES. By the way, there is no Shuri-ryu...unless someone recently made it up based on their study of styles derived from Shuri-te.
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I don't want to sound like a negative-nancy, but I've never heard of doshu outside of aikido. "doshu" - "master of the way." Literally, the kanji reads "road master." If I'm not mistaken, they started throwing this title around after Morihei Ueshiba died, calling him "doshu." They also used this title to delineate his blood descendents who have inherited the style and run the Aikikai; i.e., his son and grandson have been called "doshu." It's a very honorific title if I'm not mistaken, but the purpose is the same: to identify the founder of the style and his blood descendants who inherit the style. Given how erai a title like doshu is (especially when the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear it is Ueshiba), it just seems funny to me to see a "Doshu" Mertz. I'm not passing judgement, and I'm assuming that he founded a style of some kind (Saishu Ryu I'm guessing from the avatar?), but it still comes off a little weird to me.